Thoughts From The Dead: EXTREME(ly average)

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Being dead gives me a lot of time to think. I think about a thing, and then that turns into an opinion, which then turns into fact, and then I give it to you. Find out your new opinion on the concept of extreme in here.

There are, of course, hundreds of factors that have been a part of metal’s long journey as an outgrowth of rock. One of those factors has always been the idea of MORE; it has to be louder, it has to be faster/slower, and it has to be more brutal. These pushes to various limits have given us a thankfully diverse amount of subgenres; we can marvel at the breakneck speed of Fleshgod Apolocalypse, or wallow in the sludge of Meth Drinker. We can bask in the technical, fast-moving fury of Necrophagist, or sit in wide-eyed terror at the horrifying patience of Gnawed.

Whatever path you choose, the realm of extreme metal has something to fit your tastes. While this is surely a blessing for us metalheads, there is fair reason to consider it a curse as well. Should there be something for everyone in a category that is labeled “extreme?” By definition, no. The title not only suggests, but it boldly states that our taste should exist outside any sort of conventional perception of music. A random jabroni walking the street shouldn’t be able to be matched to an extreme metal band that suits his or her taste. However, given the current scope and diversity of metal, one can reasonably assert that most people with an introductory taste for metal can map a transition from radio-friendly whatevercore to the depths of the underground if they were to pursue it.

I’m not attempting to define the line between metal and extreme metal. It’s a new year, and what I would like to do instead is generate some discussion on what it means to be extreme in the year 2015. My interest in the topic was piqued when, a month or so ago, I came across an interview with Wreck and Reference, the hardcore/noise/drone/experimental/hard-to-define duo that released the staggeringly thoughtful album Want in June of 2014. One part of the interview really stuck out to me, in which frontman Felix Skinner essentially says that the extreme is only the extreme to the uninitiated. The most brutal death metal album with the most brutal imagery and the most brutal lyrics will shock and devastate those new to the genre, but it will be commonplace to even entry-level fans. When Cannibal Corpse released Eaten Back to Life in 1990, it was truly extreme. When they released A Skeletal Domain in 2014, it was business as usual. Don’t get me wrong, I love me some tried-and-true forms of metal, but let’s be honest: the same thing cannot be extreme when it’s the only thing that happens. Skinner asserts that pop structure, having been ingrained and written into our brains our entire lives, holds the true power; if one can manipulate an uncomfortable setting of the comfortable format of a pop structure, the familiarity can cut deep into our psyche and truly move the listener. A cursory listen through Want should validate their efforts, as there is no easy listening to be found on the album, despite the familiar structures that make up each song.

However, what does that do for the extreme metal fan that simply doesn’t find fulfillment in Wreck and Reference’s album? And, for that matter, should we “enjoy” the album, or should we be take it into a different part of our brain, where we contemplate the puzzling, the absurd, or the macabre? The answers would surely vary with each listener, and we will inevitably find ourselves discussing the topic of desensitization as we approach those listeners who simply categorize the album and similar albums as “enjoy” or “do not enjoy.” The “initiated” that Skinner refers to won’t bat an eye at the evilest of the evil lyrics, and the most gruesome album art will leave those fans unfazed. The tried-and-true riffs that should pummel and bash will be well-worn territory to the seasoned metal extremist. Simply put, when the extreme is done over and over again, it is no longer extreme. That isn’t to say it’s bad or not worth listening to, but when these bands tout themselves as the evilest of the evil, the brutalest of brutal, or the darkest of the dark, we as fans should legitimately stop and think about it, as many of these bands are the ones that have desensitized us.

So what does this all mean? In addition to Wreck and Reference’s strategy, how can metal stay extreme in 2015? Well, for one thing, it’s perfectly fine to listen to whatever you want. As a fan of extreme metal, you don’t have to seek out the untouched fringes for everything you listen to, because balance is truly important. However, I believe that it’s also important to challenge yourself as a listener. One of the things that I wish the general listening public understood the most is that it is perfectly fine to have to work at liking music. I was bored the first time I listened straight through Beethoven’s Symphony No. 7. Now, after writing a research paper over it years ago, I’m still enthralled from start to finish. No one should really “like” Uzumaki or eventually Gulaggh on their first, uninitiated listen, but after working through different levels of extreme, a distinct and true appreciation for those forms can be achieved. Then one can consider that once that appreciation is achieved, are those forms still extreme? Seeking out things that push your taste and personal boundaries as a fan is a positive experience, and it allows you to have a clearer thought on what is extreme to you. I could write this article into oblivion, but there would be no universal answer.

That last point is the heart of what I’m getting at here. Metal is diverse enough that there is no way to categorically define “extreme,” and that label itself doesn’t make anything better or worse. However, we can reasonably assert that if something is extreme to a given listener, it doesn’t grant said thing “extreme” status. Constant blast beats aren’t extreme. Gory lyrics about defiling and murdering virgins aren’t extreme. Down tuning to Z-flat isn’t extreme. These things have been worn into the ground, and no listener should accept those things as the terminal point of metal’s boundaries. Should you push yourself to the extreme if you don’t want to? Absolutely not. If you love extreme music, should you rest in the same thing that’s been done since the 90s? Absolutely not. See what’s out there, share it with friends, and don’t be afraid to work at liking something.

So how wrong am I? Are violent lyrics and brutal riffs still extreme in metal even though they’ve been done for over 20 years? Verbally abuse me in the comment section below.

  • Gurptitude

    lol i cant read

    • derp, Gurp.

      GL

      • Gurptitude

        Meow
        -Gurp’s dog

  • King Shit of Fuck Mountain

    I will always love songs about Satan.

  • Tyree

    Extreme Fucking Aggression!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prmMdI97hvQ

    • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

      This was my first Kreator letdown

      • Tyree

        It’s not their best but I still enjoy it.

        • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

          I think HoC was old before I finally made peace with this.

  • Cattle Decapiation

    • Tyree

      You would.

      • Can confirm. I would.

        • I loved your ” I am busy Archspiring” bit from last week. I lol’d

          GL

    • Decapiation
      Decapiation
      Decapiation.

      • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

        should be decapitated

      • fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

  • What I think is interesting is the subjective natural between what one person views as a “brutal riff” and how another person sees it as just “meh.” I am not suprised this is the case, it is just interesting that we rage over and over and over and over about them.

    I feel like sometimes the tone/presentation of a riff creates its “brutalness”. Since we will always be creating music – I am sure there will be an infinity supply of brutal riffs for now and forever!

    GL

  • Uzumaki>>>>>>

    The diminishing returns of metal’s extremity are definitely reason enough for some members of our community to look elsewhere for something harsher–see Edward’s Soundtrack to Your Annihilation series, which abandoned metal entirely after a few installments. I know for myself that once upon a time when I first started listening to metal the x-tremity was cool but once I found noise and other weird stuff that was a million times harsher I stopped seeking out metal for that reason. Weak!

  • Gurptitude

    But yeah, I feel if a band’s only noteworthy is it’s ability to be more extreme™ than it’s peers, it’s appeal is extremely shortlived once something more extreme inevitably surfaces.

  • Akercocke ov Steele

    Mr. Stockhausen sir, does being dead give you the ability to read people’s minds? Cuz I’ve been waiting for an article covering this subject for some time now.

  • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

    Most metal bands that seek to be extreme, seek just to be more something than their predecessors. If one would start a band and try to be less everything, while not abandoning the conceptual extremity what would one have? The Most extreme. Because all extreme bands try to go for the same things. So what I am saying is, it would not be hard to keep the violent lyrics and brutalo riffz extreme if one would just take a new angle to them/songwriting and the whole music in general.

    • Akercocke ov Steele

      I had a friend who was getting way into deathcore stuff for this reason. Cept I thought it was kinda retarded. I’m not someone who needs the heaviest most br00tally down tuned chugga choochoo brocore riff to say I’ve “found something heavier”. Shit from the 80s still blows my mind.

      • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

        I’ve never agreed that the heaviest sounds would make the heaviest songs. No core for me, mostly at least

      • Janitor Jim Dvggan

        I dislike a lot of deathcore. There is quite a bit of stuff from the 80’s that still blows my mind like Reign In Blood, Peace Sells, Exciter’s Metal Maniac album, Spellbound by Tygers Of Pan Tang, all the Iron Maiden albums of the 80’s and Lightning To The Nations.

        • Akercocke ov Steele

          Yup. He couldn’t even listen to Morbid Angel cuz it, to him was too light and boring it’s like dude, I can still blow my load over Maiden even after having heard Slayer, Nile, Morbid Angel, etc. It’s that type of thinking that made me think quality metal in jeopardy. This was a couple years ago in the Djent hay days as well. There was something about the sock beanies n’ V-necks with guitars fad that I really disliked.

    • EsusMoose

      Aight time for a cazoo metal project, where it gets sampled to create all the sounds, except the leads with be the vuvuzela

      • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

        I used to play Kazoo in a BM band, ‘Twas really something.

        • EsusMoose

          I once saw a group in minnesota who played with a didgeridoo. Was funny when their solo came up and they just took center stage and lifted the thing towards the sky and just went bbbbbbbbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmm

          • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

            I’m actually a big fan of unorthodox instruments in metal. Currently digging Horns/woodwinds and such the most. All the time looking for people to play that stuff with. On my projects, or ore likely learning the basics myself

          • EsusMoose

            I wish I remembered their name as this was 6 years ago, and that venue had some terrible acoustics so I was unable to pick up how it melded with the rest of the instrumentation.

  • Guacamole Jim

    “. . . the extreme is only the extreme to the uninitiated.” I was attempting to make that exact point on a different article, but was discussing progressive music. As far as the point of the argument goes you can probably use the terms interchangeably. You’ve said here in one succinct phrase what it took me paragraphs to articulate.

    “Constant blast beats aren’t extreme. Gory lyrics about defiling and murdering virgins aren’t extreme. Down tuning to Z-flat isn’t extreme. These things have been worn into the ground, and no listener should accept those things as the terminal point of metal’s boundaries. Should you push yourself to the extreme if you don’t want to? Absolutely not. If you love extreme music, should you rest in the same thing that’s been done since the 90s? Absolutely not.” Amen. Spot on. When I first heard noise music it was horrible and eerie and mind altering. Now I just find it boring. All the first reaction I had to it that made it interesting is gone, and now that the extremity of my comprehension of it is gone, the music holds nothing for me. I’d love to see actual progressive or extreme music that isn’t just called “progressive” or “extreme.” I feel we’re really hitting a point of stagnation in the metal scene, especially by labelling just about everything as “progressive” or “extreme.”

    • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

      But make a song about raping a 6 year old girl, and sing it, clean. Better yet make it a country song. See what happens

      • EsusMoose

        I was gonna make a joke about incest but not today

      • Have you ever listened to Xiu Xiu?

      • Count_Breznak

        There was some country version of Aeon’s “God gives head in heaven” I think.

        • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

          Going to look for this later

    • but… now we have SKRONK to save the day!

      • Janitor Jim Dvggan

        Yay, SKRONK!

      • Guacamole Jim

        I do love me some skronk.

      • Skronk is almost 20 years old now, though.

        • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

          Who SKRONKED so long ago?

        • the kitteh doth agree. but at least it’s common enough to be a subgenre now. i know if somebody throws that word out when describing a new band, they’re prob– definitely gonna get a McNulty listen!

          • In that case you will dig TDT tomorrow!

          • but i dig TDT every thursday…

          • Janitor Jim Dvggan

            Who doesn’t dig TDT? It’s the best day of the week!

          • King Shit of Fuck Mountain

            You would.

          • Janitor Jim Dvggan

            I sure would.

          • King Shit of Fuck Mountain

            You will, you have, you are.

          • you will dig it extra and shit!

    • David Vincent’s Spandex Shirt

      Look at ABSU, their latest offering didnt need to be morbidly heavy and extreme to get my tushy wiggling. Hell Altars (I know I know Trey takes credit for everything) is more interesting, unique, and fun for me than 99% of all the bands who think being heavier than thou is going to get them anywhere, I like wild riffs, and frenetic solos. Not everything has to be heavy.

  • i love your point about challenging music, @Stockhausen:disqus…
    it’s interesting to think about the evolution of one’s musical tastes. i used to love Fear Factory and Soulfly, but even not knowing much about music technically, i found myself becoming bored with bands like that. i kept looking for more challenging music. here we are today and i love Artificial Brain and Portal!
    then there are folks out there who are still jamming to Nickelback and Creed, who do not seek more challenging music! it’s not a bad thing (so long as i don’t have to overhear it — and i often do at work), it’s just not his or her desire to “push the envelope”

    • Janitor Jim Dvggan

      I love Fear Factory Jimmy!

      • Not a fan of their entire catalog but Soul of A New Machine is an excellent album.

        • Janitor Jim Dvggan

          I love Demanufacture and Soul Of A New Machine. They’re very good albums.

    • Further Down the Metal Hole

      Upvote for Fear Factory and silly Soulfly fun.

  • Tyree

    BUT… BRO!

    watch at 0% volume and staple your dick.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNibT_9-IJI

    • EsusMoose

      Dam I was hoping it’d be an acoustic ballad about their feelings!

    • so…. it was very flushy as everyone said…

      • Gurptitude

        You just listened to it for the first time too?

    • Renan Ribeiro

      I had no idea this was that bad

    • Those drums give me AIDS every time.

    • I don’t give a flush what anybody says, I think IDI was a fun album. Just pretend that this song is a Rammstein b-side and all is well.

      • Further Down the Metal Hole

        I also thought the album had its moments, but I do hope the next will be a throwback to some classics.

    • Further Down the Metal Hole

      I scanned the comment section looking for this song. Proud to not have been disappointed.

  • EsusMoose

    Great piece, it seems people who aren’t metalheads and even a fair bit of metalheads don’t understand having to listen to an album 2+ times to be able to start enjoying it. The harsher or unknown elements do create a foreign experience for the ear and you have to acclimate it.

    • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

      Except prog and jazz fans, maybe

      • EsusMoose

        Depending on if they want to come off as superior they may say they can enjoy it on every listen and hear something new every time.

        • King Shit of Fuck Mountain
          • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

            This is… Fucking bad

          • Guacamole Jim

            Seconded.

          • King Shit of Fuck Mountain

            Thirded.

          • Fourthed.

            GL

          • Quinto

            LL

          • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

            Can I sixth this?

          • say it in finnish 😀

          • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

            There is no way for it ti be said in Finnish and sounding like you were speaking at all. Kuudennan tätä? kuudennennan tätä? kuudentena kannatan tätä?

          • Guacamole Jim

            Finnish, to me, just looks like someone really liked “k” and “u” and made a language out of it.

            Kuuuukkukukkukuk? Kuukukukkkuuuukukukkukukukukkuk kukukukkuuuu kuuukukuk

          • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

            Kuusi = 6, a spruce, your moon.
            Ku’uusi = as good as new

          • Guacamole Jim

            I just noticed your username. Well played!!

          • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

            It’s relatively easy to miss 😉

          • Tyree

            Poop Ass: Same riff the whole song guitar player

    • That’s the fun of metal to me. I enjoy spending time dissecting it. I’ve been delving into more skronky and technical metal over the last year or so because it takes me more time to recognize the parts and appreciate it. I find myself digesting music faster and faster, and while I can still enjoy an album after I’ve become accustomed to all it’s nooks and crannies, the longer it takes for me to do that, the longer I’ll be listening to that album and (most likely) the more appreciation I’ll end up having for it.

  • BLVKKBEVRD

    The music doesn’t need to be extreme, the people involved do. It’s the whole tree falls in the forest thing, really. It’s all perceptions, filtered thru individual lenses. I, personally, don’t find lo-fi releases brutal. I don’t find most dissonant things brutal. It’s all subjective

    • Howard Dean

      “This man gets it: extreme music for extreme people! Thank you, Philthydelphia!!”

      http://www.decibelmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/davidvincent_morbidangel-572×380.jpg

    • I think you get the point, mr. Pirate. And from all the opinions here (which are very valid) I will have to say that I’m with you.

      The extreme of a music, song or genre is in the ears of the listener and the creative process of the maker. If you’re very sensitive enough, you can feel some of the emotions and thoughts of the maker in the piece of art (or even, this phenomenon could be another very subjective fact).

      I don’t think that extreme in music could be clasified in the music itself or the ‘closeness’ of the listener to each genre by repetition in the act of listening. If that so, we could say that oriental type music, or even microtonal, could be ‘extreme’ because we aren’t used to those sounds for the cultural/geographical difference.

      It’s a great topic. Kudos to the dead composer for bringing this!

  • Howard Dean

    I think most people–once they have been fans of extreme metal for “long enough” (this is a totally subjective and inexact period of time that you can’t really define)–will dull to the search for “extreme,” and just find music they like. And generally speaking, the music people “like” tends to incorporate some of the catchiness/formula of more traditional rock/metal–melody, riffs, hooks, etc–stuff that will get stuck in your head. It may be death metal or black metal, and have all of the typical extreme accoutrements, but it will have those hallmarks of catchiness that stick and that make you want to listen to it more.

    People become preoccupied with the pursuit of the “heavy” and the fringe, and they are fairly easy to spot. I know this because I did it once upon a time. But after awhile, you start to give 0 fucks about the “extremity” or “inaccessibility” of the music. You just want to jam it.

    • Gurptitude

      I remember listening to Enmity and Last Days of Humanity and just getting a feeling that I hit the absolute threshold and my listening habits would be forever changed.

      • Howard Dean

        That’s a good example and a typical scenario, I think. Those two bands are definitely ones about which people say “Ok, this is about as far as it goes. I’m not sure where else I can go from here.”

        • Gurptitude

          It’s like you hit the peak, look around, and realize that things were a lot better on that plateau back there.

          • Howard Dean

            Perfect analogy. “Oh, well, here we are at the pinnacle. Here is some Portal or Enmity. Wow. That’s heavy and extreme. But I actually really like Manilla Road and Vader a lot more than this. Why the fuck am I listening to this?”

          • Gurptitude

            i do dig that portal tho

          • Howard Dean

            I can appreciate some Portal, too. However, after a few listens, it loses its allure. It didn’t take me long to think “Why am I actually listening to this? I get that it’s crazy, claustrophobic, chaotic, and extreme, but I don’t really have the desire to listen to this again and again.” I contrast that feeling with a similar band that is chaotic/dissonant, a band who I listen to a lot and repeatedly–Deathspell Omega. DsO brings a lot more to their chaos/dissonance, though.

    • David Vincent’s Spandex Shirt

      I think with the increased popularity of metal and the internet’s easy access route to all of these millions of different sounds and subgenres have spoiled us all in a way.

      • Howard Dean

        I think the internet and its ubiquity of extreme/fringe metal has certainly expedited a typical metal listener’s plummet to the depths of the genre. One can very rapidly descend to the outermost edges of the genre, without actually absorbing all (or any) of what lies between. It’s a little sad. People don’t spend enough time with music anymore.

        • Akercocke ov Steele

          That’s why I like buying CDs and playing them in my car all day. Gives you time to absorb an album you might have initially passed off as boring or rehashed. You begin to actually appreciate the riffs and the sound of the album.

          • Howard Dean

            That’s what I do, too. CD MASTER RACE

          • Akercocke ov Steele

            BYAH!

        • Edward #negrodMMXV

          My previously stated goal for 2015 which still stands is to listen to less music more often, community and zeitgeist be damned.

          • Howard Dean

            I honestly think that’s a good plan. I look at the average consumption of a ToH community member last year–album upon album upon album for months on end–and can’t help but think that people didn’t spend enough time with each release. Maybe some did, but they would’ve had to devote like 16 hours a day to listening to new music.

          • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

            *Raises hand*

          • Howard Dean

            I think the nearly constant consumption of music raises its own questions. There must be a serious threat of burnout, or at least a dulling of the senses/ear to such a degree that you stop following the nuances and/or stop giving a fuck about individual artists/albums/songs.

          • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

            Look forward to me tackling this (sort of)

          • TrickleDownOvTacoKvltRiff

            this is noble..i want to try this…(looking up zestiest now)

          • Edward #negrodMMXV

            “The Zeitgeist is the intellectual fashion or dominant school of
            thought that typifies and influences the culture of a particular period
            in time”.

          • TrickleDownOvTacoKvltRiff

            thank you!

          • Edward #negrodMMXV

            Never a problem TDTR.

          • Edward #negrodMMXV

            Never a problem TDTR.

    • King Shit of Fuck Mountain

      That’s why I’m glad I like this. Simple, shitty, and fucking mean.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEtQo8WJ698

    • TrickleDownOvTacoKvltRiff

      i support your thinking on this…

    • john

      Could not agree more. I briefly attempted to follow that movement of “look for the newest/most extreme/most true cvlt/non-mainstream” shit. That lasted about a week before I started listening to metal for LIKING it again.

  • Guacamole Jim

    This, to me, is a variety of extreme:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOL9syf7h5s

    It’s music (20 years old now, but relatively new) written based on the Bohlen-Pierce scale. I’d love to hear more stuff rejecting 12 equal temperament.

    • I will not get tired to cite Pornography, from The Cure, as a very abrasive and weird album from a band that was popular.

    • Jute Gyte you fool! Venowl! Blut Aus Nord! Asteroidi Esdecafonici! Gnaw Their Tongues! Last Sacrament! M.A.N.! Wait a second they suck.

      • Guacamole Jim

        Blut Aus Nord doesn’t use 12 equal temperament? I’ve never heard anything of theirs that doesn’t sound like it’s using conventional scale tones.

        • Fretless guitars, b.

          But as much as I’d like to see more stuff outside of 12 entirely, a much more accessible goal would be to see metal bands do cool stuff with the notes they already have. Black metal is pretty much all still rooted in the same pseudo-“epic” kind of diatonic harmony and even though death metal embraces chromaticism in its riffing it’s mostly still all based on the same diminished harmony Slayer were doing decades ago. Give me serialism or give me death!

          • Dummy guitar player here – what is serialism?

          • Twelve-tone serialism basically means after playing one note you can’t play it again until you’ve played all 11 others. No note is made the tonic because they’re all played the same number of times. Egalitarian music! Equal rights for equal notes!

          • Howard Dean

            I know nothing about music, but that sounds kind of crazy.

          • +1 RT Like Fav

          • …Man, I really can’t imagine that not sounding like garbage.

          • Howard Dean

            I kept waiting for the guitar solo, and then it never happened.

          • Schoenberg is Christian Molenaar in a past life

          • Karlheinz can s my d

          • I liked this, C.! thanks for sharing… it got nice vibes, even with the mathematical precission

          • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

            Decided, Going to do this. Thanks for educating us worthless maggots.

          • now I’m interested. tell me more :O give examples to train my ear, please!

          • Guacamole Jim

            Damn. I had no idea they were on fretless guitars. That is hella cool.

            And I agree. Though serialism is nothing new (and Blotted Science, while not being true serial music, were influenced by 12-tone music on the Machinations of Dementia), it’s barely been used at all in metal music, and it could be awesome. Also, using the 24-tone scale (a la Ligeti and like a million other people) in metal would sound fucking dark and creepy.

    • EsusMoose

      I don’t find it extreme in a brutal sense, but extreme in an experimental way, yes. I’d one time discuss a similar topic in what is “experimental” as you have groups that really are out there and then ones who could just be labeled progressive.

  • In order to be extreme nowadays, you have to drink big gulp size amounts of Mountain Dew regularly. But seriously, I think being extreme has been done to death and the vast majority of listeners are numb to it. To be relevant in 2015, artists need to be head and shoulders above their competition.

    • Count_Breznak

      Or way below. Extremely bland. Extremely trite. Extremely dull….

      • BLVKKBEVRD

        U mean the new Sylosis album?

        • Count_Breznak

          Might be. At the moment the album is just extremely unknown to me.

        • FLAGGED FOR EXTREME RUSTLING!!!!!!!!!

          GL

        • That metalcore band whose fans are extremely convinced isn’t a metalcore band?

          • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

            Tritevium?

          • lololololololol

          • EsusMoose

            I know they basically are metalcore, early material was, current material have shown a lacking in those elements. Don’t gotta hate on all metalcore just most and anyone who defends them.

          • BLVKKBEVRD

            I thought it was an Unearth cover band

        • Janitor Jim Dvggan

          You’re rustling my jimmies. That was a good album.

        • Voivod?

        • Motherfuck!

        • Further Down the Metal Hole

          This was a good, nasty comment. It rustled all the jimmies, mine included.

          • BLVKKBEVRD

            Thx

        • Ted Nü-Djent ™

          Wait…what?

    • Akercocke ov Steele

      Like Akercocke levels, and even then most people will still think it’s bland.

    • JWG
      • This was the inspiration for Mountain Dew comment.

  • Janitor Jim Dvggan

    Extreme in my opinion is not based on speed but on lyrics, themes in your music and how powerful you can be soundwise and emotionally. A good example of extreme to me is Wormphlegm’s Tomb Of The Ancient King. Not only is it soul crushing powerful soundwise but the themes are extremely heavy. The Crimson Idol by WASP is not extreme because even though it is the heaviest album when it comes to emotions it does not sound powerful outside of the guitars.

  • Tyree

    You know what else is extreme.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDbpzjbXUZI

  • FeelTheDarkness

    It has extreme right in the name
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLMfoj-DuZU

  • I kind of stick in a flux of being comfortable with the genres I like, and then switching gears and trying to find something more “extreme.” I listened to this whole thing in 2013 and LOVED it, although it’s more extreme in its punishing length than anything else. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrmBnN7aQ9s

  • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

    I found it, it’s actually enjoyable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E6RGcCK3Xk

    • Tyree

      The production and drum sound suck asshole, but I do enjoy this song and album nonetheless. I think @disqus_SuTZzQbXC5:disqus is seeing these guys.

      • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

        No drums here, haven’t listened to the original actually ever.

        • Tyree

          Oh, the acoustic version. Fucking odd.

          • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

            I kinda like it how they go all emotional and harmonic just to utter “Goooodd Gives head in heeeaaavennn.”

      • Howard Dean

        Indeed! In February with Tribulation, Cannibal Corpse, and Behemoth! I need to acquaint myself with Aeon a little more.

        • Renan Ribeiro

          Do you honestly feel “acquainted” enough to Tribulation? Come on, man, just give Formulas of Death one more spin.

          • Howard Dean

            Hahaha, I’ve spun that album like a lazy susan at a table full of ADHD kids.

    • Count_Breznak

      Yup, that’s the one.

  • Lol, a band actually made $20,000 by releasing a CD of total silence on Spotify. Now that’s experimental and EXTREME, yo!

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/the-sound-of-silence-la-band-raises-20000-through-spotify-without-recording-a-note-9340868.html

    • Janitor Jim Dvggan

      Damnit, that was my idea! They stole my idea from me!

    • the comments are very funny:

      “This is breach of copyright. John Cage wrote a completely silent piece several decades ago, and his publishers have successfully sued Mike Batt for his similar work ‘A Minute’s Piece’ some years back”.

    • Edward #negrodMMXV
    • Scrimm

      I thought about trying that in stand up comedy, just going out and staring intensly at the audience. Maybe act like I was going to say something every so often but then just keep staring.

  • Renan Ribeiro

    My current limits are power electronics and slam death metal. And I wholeheartedly agree with Dean and Gurptitude’s opinions.

    • Howard Dean

      Slam death really isn’t as “extreme” as it seems at first. It’s actually far more catchy and headbangeable than other types of extreme metal. Slams are by their nature “catchy” pseudo-mosh riffs. It’s mostly just the gurgle/cricket vocals that throw people off.

      • Tyree
        • Howard Dean

          Grave Upheaval is like listening to the Florida everglades: murky, swampy, disorienting, and it leaves you feeling like you are going to get attacked by an alligator or a rogue Burmese python at any moment.

          • Tyree

            That was a great description.

      • Renan Ribeiro

        Yes, I just find it hard to get into. I enjoy skronk more than slam, and objectively I guess Skronk is more off-putting.

      • Scrimm

        Some of it is finally starting to grow up at least a little. Still, most pure slam bands are a little too much.

        • Howard Dean

          Indeed. Bands like Defeated Sanity, Katalepsy, and Wormed–bands that add a little depth and direction to their songs, and don’t just slam ad nauseum–are certainly the better side of the sub-subgenre.

          • Scrimm

            Yeah. I’m trying to write some stuff like that myself.

          • Howard Dean

            Nice!

      • To me, the vocals sound like ‘It’s Pat’ trying Mongolian throat singing.

    • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

      I still don’t like slam very much

  • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

    How about an extreme metal band writing positively, and unironically about love. About peace. About tea and choccy biccies. About getting really high and then playing submarine in the bath. About putting on a big white fleece and then leaping around like a Yeti?

    • Renan Ribeiro
      • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

        I am in full favour of this goofing off!

    • BLVKKBEVRD

      Deafheaven?

      • Nordling Rites ov Kahlua

        Probably meant without all the other stuff Deafhaven has going on

      • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

        I like Deaf George and the Heavenly Bunch but they’re not weird or virulent enough.

    • You just summed up HIM in a nutshell, except not as fruity as they are.

      • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

        I used to listen to HIM a bit back in the day. Nowadays just sounds weak ass to me. Still dig the whole Gothic romance bit, but you it needs some real poetry and some real gnarly fire.

  • tertius_decimus

    This is the best picture EVAR! Care to share big size?

  • Extremity hasn’t been my goal in metal for a long time. When I first got into metal, searching for the “most extreme” band was seemingly how I progressed to another subgenre. I had started with traditional heavy metal and doom and progressed to power metal and some thrash metal. I then transitioned to death metal and dabbled in black metal and finally came to grindcore. I’ve long since stopped caring about what is extreme and what isn’t. I’ve come to the point where I listen to music based on my mood. Sometimes I just need to blast the fuck out of everything with death metal and grindcore. Sometimes I just want to chill out and listen to doom/stoner/sludge or atmospheric black metal. Sometimes I feel good and feel like riding on the back of a dragon with power metal. My choice of music is entirely based on good, catchy, and unique riffs, vocals that I don’t found irritating (I.E. no fucking pig squeals or boy band clean vocals), and the band’s ability to evoke an image or emotion in me. A reason that I wasn’t able to get into tech death for a long time is because a great deal of it is just guitar, drum, bass, and vocal fucking and no real substance outside of the technical aspect. Thanks to Mr. Jack Bauer, I have finally been able to add some quality tech death to my library that isn’t Cryptopsy, Gorguts, Atheist, or Iniquity.

    • Ted Nü-Djent ™

      Thou hast spoken true words today