Sunday Sesh: Let’s Just Talk About How Good Black Metal is So Far This Year

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A thought occurred to me the other day as I was listening to the new Nidingr album. It wasn’t anything revolutionary, and in fact was pretty obvious. Still, it’s something worth saying aloud: black metal in 2017 is really fucking good.

Obvious, right? A little over a month into the new year and we’ve already seen a rather unusual amount of quality black metal releases. These stretches happen, but feel incredibly rare to start the year. The end of December through the start of February are typically a dead period for artistic endeavors. Movies are dumped in January and destined to die, list and Grammy season is over so labels take a holiday break, books…maybe get released in January? (I admit to cluelessness on that front). I’m not sure why this year is particularly stacked, perhaps due to an absolute glut of new music and a little luck, but I DO know that it comes at a good time.

The black metal furor (or fuhrer I guess depending on what black metal you’re listening to) perfectly suits a world that feels so engulfed in rage and bordering on chaos. That’s what black metal started as after all: rage and chaos. I wanted to share some of my favorite bits of that chaotic rage with you today. They’ve been an excellent distraction from life and a good reminder that as silly as metal usually is, it still has an incredible power to it.


First up is Endalok, yet another band from Iceland. I know, I’m sorry. They aren’t the only one here so save your anger. After last year’s intriguing Englaryk demo, these fine gentlemen returned with one hell of an EP. Much darker and nastier than anything else coming out of the suddenly bloated Icelandic scene. Check this out if you wish your black metal was as cavernous as it is frigid.


I’ll just go ahead and do you a solid and get Iceland out of the way right now. Draugsol will probably sound familiar to a lot of you thanks to this great review by CyBro. There’s not much I can add other than “if you haven’t listened to this, you’re fucking up.”


This one may be cheating because depending on who you ask it was either released in late December or early January. Regardless, I haven’t seen much coverage of Veter Daemonaz and they are a band deserving of it. Orthodox Russian black metal (not Russian Orthodox) with guitar solos more reminiscent of 80’s shred-fests than anything you hear in modern black metal. Plus, look at that artwork!


Lorn’s Arrayed Claws has been getting plenty of praise around these parts and others in the metal blogosphere, and for good reason. This shit riiiiiips [Cosigned – Lizard]. Displaying an affinity for muscular rhythms not seen too frequently in black metal, synth ambience and just the right amount of weirdness has made this my most listened to release of the year so far.


Finally we have the aforementioned Nidingr album The High Heat Licks Against Heaven. I haven’t gotten to spend much time with this one since it just released a few days ago, but I can tell you right now that this sucker RIFFS. What more could you ask for?


This is merely a smattering of the great stuff 2017 has had to offer thus far. There have also been albums by The Great Old Ones, Au Champ Des Morts, Wiegedood, Naddred…it goes on for days. It’s almost guaranteed that this pace won’t keep up. How could it? It’s unsustainable at best and a total fluke at worst. If it isn’t just a fluke, however, even with a dropoff in quantity we could be looking at a year for the ages for black metal.

What are you dudes and dudettes jamming? What has been your go to black metal album so far? Sound off in the comments!

(Image via)

  • Pagliacci is Kvlt
  • Señor Jefe El Rosa

    Besides the new MistyFarming track, not a lot of new black metal on my end. However, I did spend plenty of time with Immortal and Bathory last month. New music this year has me lurking in dungeons and wielding swords so far. The Oldenhelm release I talked about has me completely flabbergasted on how Dungeon Synth in 2017 can get any better. Also, new Crystal Viper on Friday has me quite excited.

    I do need to get some new Black Metal into my system though, maybe we’ll get another Havukruunu album and Boss the Ross will be a happy camper.

    • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

      Did you check out Saor yet? That strikes me as the kind of blackish celtic metal that would be up your alley.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a41bIBvqTP0

      • Señor Jefe El Rosa

        Ah! Yes, been meaning to get on that

        • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

          He had a new one out last year. Good album, but Aura is still his pinnacle imho.

          • Jack Rabbit

            I just got into Guardians recently, so I should probably check out Aura. Also, he was hinting on Facebook he may try and book a few US dates, which would be awesome.

      • Good recommendation for that particular Boss; I also think it’ll suit him well.

        • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

          I remember Boss liking Summoning (duh, who doesn’t?). And I do see some slight similarities between Saor and Summoning.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuaMYJzs0nA

          • Señor Jefe El Rosa

            SUMMONING>>>>>>>>>>>>>
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      • Black Smallbeard

        i like a lot of their stuff but sometimes it just strikes me as gimmicky. its just plain jane BM riffs with some melodies from that irish instrument put over it

        • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

          I had that feeling with their last album. It was still a good listen, but while Aura really did the trick for me, I had a “well, we’ve heard that one before”-feeling while listening to Guardians.

    • Howard Dean

      Making assumptions based upon your tastes (trad. heavy metal, power metal, more epic sounding stuff): I would recommend Nokturnal Mortum, particularly their most recent full length, The Voice of Steel. That album is downright massive. Very epic shit. Try this track on for size. Has huge synth lines and epic chanted choruses, and even an awesome bluesy jam band sounding solo part way through the track.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtQ0i3oOYdc

      • Señor Jefe El Rosa

        Well that sounds absolutely perfect! Thank you kindly Mr. Dean. I shall listen and report back.

        • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

          I second Mr. Dean’s excellent recommendation.
          Also, you’ve probably already listened to the band, but Moonsorrow got into a more “blackened” direction after “Kivenkantaja”. It’s still no all-out black metal, but it has enough touches of the genre.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L55DNLzitmo

          • Señor Jefe El Rosa

            Moonsorrow kicks major ass.

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            That statement is what I’d call a correct statement.

    • Brutalist_Receptacle

      What is this MistyFarming of which you speak.

  • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

    While I agree there have been many black metal bands this year (and the previous one) doing an excellent job at creating solid slabs of black metal, there isn’t really one of late that really “stuck out” in my opinion. Many of them make great music, but I can’t really find one that did something incredibly wayward and made a “splash” with it.
    What I mean is, I haven’t found the new Deathspell Omega, Blut Aus Nord, Mgla, Batushka, Taake, Cultes Des Ghoules, The Ruins of Beverast, Inquisition, Wolves in the Throne Room, Darkspace, Negura Bunget, Weakling, Leviathan…yet.

    • Mgla is still nigh-untouchable. Although I refuse to pronounce it properly since it sounds really weird. “MUG-luh” is much easier.

      • more beer

        I’ve tried listening to that numerous times. It just doesn’t work for me.

      • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

        This song in particular is some transcendental stuff man.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdl1oQ0W-ls

        • Yessir! Every number on that album is excellent but I and VI are phenomenal.

      • Dumpster Lung

        What is the proper pronunciation? I only know like 2 people in real life who are aware of them, so it doesn’t come up in actual audible conversation often enough for any of us to know haha.

        • MMM-gwuh.

          • Dumpster Lung

            I completely forgot about the slash through the thing that looks like a lowercase L. Thanks man! Not that it will probably ever make a lot of difference where I live 😛

          • Nor where I am, haha! Good to know though. Since a big part of my job is knowing or figuring out how to pronounce things, I hit up the reference materials at the office fairly regularly to figure out how band names are pronounced.

  • RJA

    December release that’s flown under the radar a bit – although not sure why as the debut got a significant amount of coverage
    https://nahtrunar.bandcamp.com/album/existenz

  • KyleJMcBride

    I’ll just be chilling out over here. Don’t mind me.

    • more beer

      I am with you on this subject.

    • Señor Jefe El Rosa

      You can always not talk about BM, like I basically did, hahaha

      • KyleJMcBride

        Since this is(I assume) the only post until tomorrow morning, I’m sure I’ll post about lots of stuff that is completely unrelated to either Black Metal or Bowel Movements. ^_^

  • Black Smallbeard

    black metal sucks

  • KyleJMcBride
    • Sid Vicious Promos

      Where’s HR Pufnstuf?

  • FrankWhiteKingOfNY
    • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

      Drone rules! I do believe I may jam some Asva.

      • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

        Didn’t jam Asva in ages. Need to dig up some of their work. Whenever I’m in a drone metal mood, I always end up going back to the more “obvious” choices: Sunn O))), Khanate, Burning Witch, The Angelic Process, Nadja, Jesu…

        • James

          woo jesu

    • Stockhausen

      KHANATE

      • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

        SILENCE

        WHILE I STRIP

        BOOOOOOOONESSSSSS

        • Sir Ukkometso The Based

          I MADE THIS CORNER
          FOR YOU TO STAND IN

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            I wear…

            a human shield

            shhhhh-shhhhhh-shhhhhh

  • Howard Dean

    So far we’ve had new White Death (end of ’16 beginning of ’17 release) and the new Goatmoon, which are both phenomenal. We have new Sielunvihollinen and Nokturnal Mortum dropping in the near future (next 1-2 months?). That Misthyrming/Sinmara split was short but sweet. And I know there’s potential for a new Misthyrming full length soon-ish.

    Good start and great outlook. My expectations for both the new Sielunvihollinen and Nokturnal Mortum are ~Top 10 releases for the year, so hopefully they don’t disappoint.

    • Black Smallbeard

      that Nokturnal Mortum/Graveland split was better than id hoped.

      this year we also had an AMSG/Hostium/etc split that was probably too NS for the toilet but it is great

      • Howard Dean

        I thought the NM side of the split was significantly better than the Graveland side, but I’m a much bigger fan of theirs so my opinion might be skewed.

        Have not heard that AMSG/Svolder/Hostium/Arrogance split, but judging by the bands on there I’m sure there’s at least a bit of good material.

        • Black Smallbeard

          you should check it out. MoD still has copies (i think) but it is gonna be hard to get ahold of otherwise. i know Tyree managed to grab one

          to be real honest, im not a big fan of eithers new material but i am a HUGE fan of both their early works. so we’ll see

          • Howard Dean

            I don’t buy vinyl, so I’ll just have to pass on the split. Would be especially keen to hear the Svolder stuff. Hostium and AMSG are pretty good, but not at the same level as Svolder in my opinion. Arrogance is some fun noisy stuff.

    • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

      Words cannot describe how pumped I am for a new Nokturnal Mortum album.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPPMd1d_QMA

    • Howard Dean

      Someone don’t be liking something about my comment:

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/818e7e5f9e1d932ebf20b064ab2105138d803f868cf81b948a61b62057db1af1.jpg

      I thought I was on topic and inoffensive, but what do I know? Trying to figure out the ever-changing moods, emotions, and feelings of the ToH crew is like trying to understand all of the nuance of a random number generator. If there’s something to be peeved about, someone will find it!

      • KyleJMcBride

        Who is The Phantom Downvoter?

      • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

        As sure as you will find it a worthy grief that you’ve been downvoted, so shall you be downvoted. Also Aspa is a racist scumbag, regardless of his music it shouldn’t be very hard to count 1 + 1.Surely you’ve noticed he’s not exactly well-loved by the majority of TovH recidents.

        • Black Smallbeard

          ToH: where everyones a racist scumbag lolol

          • Sid Vicious Promos

            You sir win the Best Comment Of The Day Award.

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            Let’s not pretend you’re unaware of Aspa’s misogynist and/or antisemite opinions.

          • Sid Vicious Promos

            He’s a misogynist and an anti-Semite as well? I hate him. I’ve been mistaken for Jewish and I do not like anti-Semites.

          • Howard Dean

            You’re the type of guy who would end up chasing the Hale-Bopp spaceship with a cup of spiked kool aid. Haha. Doesn’t take much to lead you, my friend.

          • Sid Vicious Promos

            That is true.

          • KyleJMcBride

            Nike should’ve done an ad campaign based around that cult.

          • more beer

            But committing mass suicide isn’t exactly athletic.

          • KyleJMcBride

            Yeah, but it’s perfect for the “Just Do It” tagline.

          • more beer

            Good point. But the lawsuits from family members who had a relative kill themselves while wearing Nike’s would put them out of business.

          • Sid Vicious Promos

            Actually the saying “Don’t Drink The Kool Aid” is inaccurate because the Jonestown mass suicide was carried out by poisoned Flavor Aid which is a different brand entirely with different flavors.

          • KyleJMcBride

            I am aware sir.

          • Sid Vicious Promos

            Not enough people are sadly.

          • Rob M

            “Dont drink the shitty knock-off brand Kool Aid” just dosnt have the same ring to it

          • more beer

            Unless it is laced with cyanide.

          • Freedom Jew

            Me, too.

          • more beer

            Let’s not pretend. That we listen to what most of the world considers a questionable type of music. Made by questionable people.

          • Black Smallbeard

            DING DONG DING

          • more beer

            No matter who people try to sugar coat it and justify things. That is the harsh reality of it. When I started listening too metal. It certainly wasn’t to be a part of the status quo. It was about not being a part of that. This new kinder and gentler metal is weak to say the least.

          • Rob M

            Dont think anyone is denying he’s a scumbag as a person, but some people put aside what artists do in their personal life if the music is good, and some dont.

            I dont think theres necessarily anything wrong with either point of view

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            Look, I like his music. Quite a bit of it in fact. But it takes a special kind of stupid to come to a blog that has taken a decidedly anti-racist stand and expect something else. Or be like More Beer and demand that no metal musician should be held for any standard ’cause not all of them are squeaky clean.

            It’s not hard to not post this stuff in here. And it doesn’t look like people are doing it to troll either, so why the fuck does it have to be here?

            inb4 “lolololo sounds like you need a safe place, imma post this nazi shit and get buttmad when confronted” from that one dude who never misses a chance to post it.

          • Sir Ukkometso The Based

            Mikko Aspa is a pleb, only Pekka Siitoin is real
            “Turha on elää, turha on kuolla, turha on vanhojen naisten vittuja nuolla, koska todellinen mies on sotilas, juoppo ja pukki. Jokainen mies itkee, nuolee vitun ja vetää käteen, mutta harva sen tunnustaa. Mutta minä natsiupseerina tunnustan ne kaikki”

          • Rob M

            If we’re talking about flat out, NSBM than Id agree…If we’re talking about artists who have NSBM beliefs, but keep it out of their music I dont think its that cut and dry…

            …If the majority of people here feel like artist personal life is every bit as important as the artists music, than Id probably err on the side of caution myself, and not post about it, but Im not going to take it to people on the website who want to talk about those bands unless Ive got reason to believe they share those beliefs themselves.

          • more beer

            Funny I don’t listen to any of that. But you do. So you apparently have no issue with listening to questionable music, made by questionable people. If you are listening to that. You certainly are not calling them on it. How do the beliefs of a musician I don’t know, have anything to do with how I live my life?

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            My only problem is people not being able to comprehend plain English and somehow not understanding this oarticular site is not the place to post these bands.

          • Black Smallbeard

            well, its not that simple. many occasions show this site run stories about bands with obvious NS beliefs or tangential ties to NS persons or labels. then you get flamed simply for talking about similar bands (ie not even glorifying beliefs)

          • Mosh Hoff

            [citation needed]

          • Black Smallbeard

            how about just right now, with that wolfshook right there in the article? or when theyre reviewing albums put out by any label like WTC (run by Absurds drummer), or Darker than Black, or even Iron Bonehead. Articles about bands like Tetragrammacide. its a pretty long list. it just shows that yall just want to call everyone who disagrees with your point of view a nazi, while not even knowing or just ignoring it when it suits you

          • Mosh Hoff

            I don’t know who any of those bands are, but at any rate, you seem mad about this. You have PLENTY of places on the internet to discuss these types of bands where you might feel more welcome. This isn’t the NWN forums.

          • Black Smallbeard

            no. you asked, so i gave you examples. then you ignored the point entirely.

          • Mosh Hoff

            People who write for the blog like different music, as do the readers. Commenters can voice their opinion on said music, and people can agree or disagree with them (including, yes, the downvote button).

            Not to speak for everyone, but as far as I’m aware, the writers who do cover sketchy bands are well aware of their sketchiness and don’t get all mad about people stating it for what it is (or about getting downvoted).

          • Rob M

            I can get behind this…I have no problem with people voicing their opinion whether its for or against these bands

          • Lacertilian

            There’s an immense gaping void of disparity between “calling everyone who disagrees with your point of view a nazi” and assuming that the one guy who seemingly goes out of his way to post questionable bands the vast majority of the time is of dubious intent.

          • Black Smallbeard

            i guess the real gaping void is the one of intent . . . its not like me or HD or anyone else who listens to this stuff goes “listen to this because you need to believe this, or hate x y and z”

          • Lacertilian

            I don’t think you can get upset at people assuming you’re sympathetic to the ideals of nazism if your online presence in a forum consists almost entirely of expressing excitement over the latest NSBM-affiliated releases, knowing every little detail of the scene and those behind it, and espousing alt-right rhetoric at any given opportunity.
            Hardly a giant leap to extrapolate someone’s general stance based on their repeated actions.

          • Howard Dean

            “…the one guy who seemingly goes out of his way to post questionable bands the vast majority of the time is of dubious intent.”

            Before today, I was not aware that he was considered questionable and was not to be discussed on the ToH, since we have covered his projects and discussed him on here before. Now I know that he is considered questionable. Out of respect for the blog’s feelings, I will not discuss him anymore.

            This is why I asked for a definitive ToH list of what is “OK” and what isn’t OK to discuss, because frankly the lines are pretty blurry in a lot of cases and subject to change. I don’t go out of my way to post “questionable” bands, I’m just not aware of what is considered “questionable” by the ToH at this moment. A big comprehensive list would fix that.

          • Lacertilian

            Wasn’t inferring you were the one guy. You tend to post a variety of material.

          • more beer

            Fair enough. I don’t listen to whole lot of black metal. So I couldn’t tell you who is a Nazi and who isn’t.

          • Rob M

            Not debating for band like Goatmoon and such, but honest question…Dont you think some of that kind of goes out the window if the site itself is talking about bands like Deathspell Omega?

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            Not really. There’s a cognitive dissonance, which is more than unfortunate. But I see no reason to grab the first excuse I can get and completely roll out.

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            Addendum to my previous: You will also have noted that while in the past TovH has run articles about sketchy people/bands, it has become much stricter regarding these things within the last year or so. Using them as excuses is becoming, increasingly, clutching at straws.

          • Black Smallbeard

            it was only like last week that Lizard reviewed three WTC releases

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            Which one of them was NSBM?

          • Black Smallbeard

            just , WTC is a label run by a literal neonazi that went to prison for killing a “race traitor” . . . where is the line drawn

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            I suppose at none of the bands being nazi? I have to admit I didn’t know (might’ve heard) Absurds drummer ran WTC though.

          • Rob M

            And thats fine, I dont object to the site setting ground rules for this, or changing them as they go on…but I dont think its exactly clutching at straws to wonder where the line is between DsO and Clandestine Blaze…

            ..or what do we do in regards to a band like Nokturnal Mortum who are supposedly trying to distance themselves from their sketchy past…is the current stuff okay? Do their earlier albums stay out of bounds forever?

            I guess thats why I find it easier to draw the hard line for myself at bands that are NS in both their lyrics as well as their beliefs…Theres too many shades of grey in this conversation to say all bands with NS ties of any kind should be banned from being spoken about in the comment section

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            Yeah, and out of respect I never post a song by a band like Arghoslent or Grand Belial’s Key.
            On the other hand I don’t think that when I say that I think both bands I just named make good music sonically speaking – while I find their lyrical subject to be backwards – I deserve to be called a nazi myself. I don’t say this happens, but sometimes I have the feeling that it’s not so far off. I might be mistaken of course.

          • Howard Dean

            In it’s early days the ToH even had this same conversation about GBK and Arghoslent in the form of an article. There was actually a lot of pretty good and reasoned debate back then. I’m not sure it would have the same response nowadays (in fact I’m 99% certain this articled wouldn’t get posted nowadays):

            http://www.toiletovhell.com/howard-deans-kvlt-ov-personality-incorrigible-apathy/

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            And that was a good article. Honestly, I don’t like their subject matter, but their music itself is damn fucking good. And whenever I jam them, I really do have a feeling of guilt and I do wish their lyrics weren’t the way they are.

          • Mosh Hoff

            Dude the actual highest-upvoted comment literally says “Nazi Punks Fuck Off”

          • Howard Dean

            So? Obviously people don’t like Nazis. It’s pretty clear that I didn’t write that article in order to convert people to the Hitler Youth.

            Many of the other 200+ comments were on topic and in the form of actual conversation about the topic/theme (separating art from the artist). Having that discussion was the intent of that article, and I think it was successful.

          • Mosh Hoff

            True, but what’s different now? You’re the one who went off-topic posting a totally irrelevant screenshot and complaining about it. People had opinions then, and they still have them now (re: using the downvote button).

          • Howard Dean

            The reason I posted that was because I was confused as to why I received negative feedback (the downvote), as I wasn’t sure what I had done wrong. Downvotes state clear dislike but do not give reasoning the same way a comment does (“hey, we’re not discussing Mikko Aspa anymore on the ToH because he is now persona non grata”). I was trying to receive clarification. And I did. Clandestine Blaze/Mikko Aspa are not ToH-friendly topics, which I was not aware of until about an hour ago.

          • Mosh Hoff

            But it’s not that he’s persona non-grata. We have more readers than before, if someone doesn’t like that asswipe (so, a lot of people) but doesn’t want to get into a whole thing, that person can just downvote. Same as people could do when you did the Arghoslent thing.

          • Howard Dean

            How was I supposed to deduce an anonymous reader’s dislike of a particular musician I mentioned by a downvote? That’s why I asked the question. I wanted to know what I did wrong.

          • Mosh Hoff

            Fair enough, but I really don’t get why you’re going to such lengths to avoid something as inane as a downvote.

          • Howard Dean

            It’s not about the downvote. It’s about understanding the parameters of acceptable ToH discussions, which has always been challenging. I went to great lengths to try and understand what’s OK to talk about and what isn’t. It blew up into a shitstorm, but I didn’t intend for it to.

          • Guacamole Jim

            I don’t really know exactly what’s going on in the rest of this comment thread, but I remember this article and still think it was awesome. The way you presented it was well thought out, and you asked an important question about art and questionable views, while not condemning anyone for balking at listening to music made by racists. I’m pretty sure that if a similarly hot-button issue was handled as well in an article, Joe would run it.

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            I try to never make that accusation, I don’t think that. It may somrtimes seem like that though, because I just don’t get how are people unable to keep away from posting it here.

          • Howard Dean

            The comment I’ve made three times now in this comment chain that no one has answered: How are we supposed to know what is “OK” to post about and what isn’t? Mikko was OK to post about not that long ago. He isn’t OK to post about now. When did that happen, and how was I supposed to know?

            That’s why I suggested the list. That way there isn’t this guessing game. Is it OK to talk about Burzum, or not OK? Is it OK to reference Burzum only in the context of making fun of Varg, or can we actually say positive things about his music? Is it OK to talk about bands on World Terror Committee or Darker Than Black, or not? Mikko is off limits, but are the bands signed to Northern Heritage OK to discuss? A big ol’ list would clear this up. Who’s going to start making it?

          • Rain Poncho W.

            I’ll provide a serious answer to the label question. I think it tends to be a band by band basis rather than a label-wide thing unless that label/distro is directly promoting Nazism/antisemitism. Why W.T.C./Norma Evangelium Diaboli (note that I don’t recognize any NS bands on the label roster on M-A, but just throwing them out as an example) get passes despite some sketchy affiliations is because I don’t think the majority of the artists on either label are nazis. Some on W.T.C. are, sure, but Barshasketh/Shaarimoth are not, and I’d still like to promote worthwhile bands even if their material is being distributed by scumbags.

            Is it maybe a bit subjective? Sure. Are we going to get it 100% right? No. But I think most of the writers/commenters do things on a 1-by-1 basis, or at least try to.

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            In the end, it’s up to the editors.
            But. If a band consists of, or includes, racist etc dudes I’d think hard about posting them at all for now.
            And, I’d like to take a moment to point out that this didn’t begin with you posting about Clandestine Blaze, but from you expressing surprise for someone downvoting a post that featured a racist artist.
            A goddamn downvote.

          • Howard Dean

            As I have said like six times now: The reason I made the comment was because I was confused as to why I received negative feedback (the downvote), as I wasn’t sure what I had done wrong. Downvotes state clear dislike/disapproval but do not give reasoning the same way a comment does (“hey, we’re not discussing Mikko Aspa anymore on the ToH because he is now persona non grata”). I was trying to receive clarification. And I did.

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            Yet I stand by my statement that prohibiting a band like DsO’s music from being discussed isn’t right, just because the dude behind the music is an asshole.

          • Howard Dean

            As far as I know DsO is OK. People have and continue to discuss them on the ToH. Could that change (today? tomorrow? now?). Sure. And it probably will. It’s clear from this discussion today that the “OK/not OK” line is very ambiguous and subjective, and no one can define actual parameters (besides very obvious stuff). So who knows? It’s up to the powers that be to make the determination, and we’re just along for the ride (and the whiplash).

          • Black Smallbeard

            HD, safe to say most of the stuff we enjoy is NOT ok. Follow that rule and we’ll be golden. but make sure we dont point it out when others do it.

            youre also a nazi

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            In the case of bands like Arghoslent, GBK, etc…I do understand the reasoning behind people not agreeing with someone posting songs by those bands here. At the end of the day, the lyrics of those bands are blatant bigotry (especially in Arghoslent’s case, GBK’s overtones seem to be more anti-religious).

            Deathspell Omega, Burzum, Nokturnal Mortum (now their older material does have some questionable lyrics), Destroyer 666, etc…on the other hand, sure the persons behind the music are major turds, but I struggle to find hardcore racism in the lyrics of the songs I’d post by these bands. Prohibiting all music by these bands “might” just be taking it a step too far.
            That’s just my two cents anyways.

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            Today’s convo isn’t even about prohibiting anything. While I fully expect Nazi-stuff to get deleted, I have to point out you’re not gonna get banned for postong D666.
            Today is about a man unable to comprehend that someone didn’t like him posting about a racist fuckhead. Yes, it got out of hands, it always does, yet the points stand.
            You can talk about bands you want to, you’ll be notified if some band “crosses the line”,and in 99% I’d expect anyone to be able to tell if they should post a band or not.

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            Fair enough.

          • Howard Dean

            Have you read any of the comments I’ve made (at least three of which were directly to you)??? I’ve said it a million times:

            The reason I made the initial comment was because I was confused as to why I received negative feedback (the downvote), as I wasn’t sure what I had done wrong. Downvotes state clear dislike/disapproval but do not give reasoning the same way a comment does. I was trying to receive clarification. And I did..

            It had nothing to do with being “unable to comprehend that someone didn’t like him posting about a racist fuckhead.” I can comprehend that just fine, because I’m not fucking stupid and have mastered reading comprehension. I was trying to receive clarification because I was unaware that the person I mentioned was not to be discussed.

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            *Has been banned for posting sketchy bands
            *Posts Aspa
            *Is surprised that someone disliked it. Even though someone would have even if the general consensus was “Go, Aspa, Go!”.

            NOBODY IS TRYING TO KEEP YOU FROM DISCUSSING ANYTHING. SOMEONE DISLIKED A COMMENT YOU MADE.
            YOUR COMMENT IS STILL UP.
            How does this not compute?

          • Howard Dean

            Because I’m not trying to be a troll or to start controversy. I’m trying to understand things so that I won’t start controversy in the future.

            I mentioned the new CB album because it is relevant to this topic. I honestly didn’t realize Aspa was off limits (based upon past discussions of his projects on the ToH). I know he is off limits now, so I won’t mention him again. Fin

            How does that not compute?

          • more beer

            You’re the one who admitted to listening to this shit. I don’t listen to it. So to me this edit is nothing more than backtracking to cover your ass. Do you really think my commenting on an obscure metal blog. Is going to change anyone’s beliefs? Hate to break it to you, but the world is a pretty shitty place filled with a lot of shitty people. All I have control of is how I live my life. Just like everyone else. I have never posted an NSBM song ever. I wouldn’t even know where to start. As it is not my thing. Sorry if I don’t get my panties in a bunch over things I can’t change.

          • RJA

            Posting an NSBM song somewhere doesn’t make you an asshole. Repeatedly doing so after being told not to kinda does.

            I think this hits the nail pretty squarely on the head! I like a fair bit of questionable stuff and I understand its not welcome here – although I don’t necessarily think that’s what Howard’s intent was.

          • If enough people are telling you you’re a racist scumbag, maybe you should stop and listen to what they’re saying.

          • Rob M

            Considering the way social media works these days…not always the best barometer anymore

        • Sid Vicious Promos

          I don’t know much about Aspa but if he is a racist I’m not a fan of his already.

        • Howard Dean

          I actually didn’t put that together, as I didn’t know it was that clear, to be honest. Many a Toileter likes Deathspell Omega and Mgla (I believe Mgla is still on Northern Heritage, Mikko’s label), and shit I think people back in the day were talking about his PE projects like Grunt. He’s a pretty big fixture in underground music, so it’s tough to not run into him. He and his projects have been discussed many a time on the Toilet. I honestly wasn’t aware that he was persona non grata now. But I shouldn’t be surprised.

          Can we make a definitive list of who is “OK” and who isn’t? Who is “ToH approved” and who is a “racist scumbag”?Because trying to guess is like trying to guess the next delusion of a paranoid schizophrenic.

          • Black Smallbeard

            not worth it.

            in the latest experiences, if it even has a hint of not hating white people its racist. lol

          • Sid Vicious Promos

            That’s awful. I’m white and I don’t hate anyone. Love and only love will endure.

          • Mosh Hoff

            So much of the metal I love is explicitly against white people I don’t even know where to begin with examples.

          • Mosh Hoff

            It’s really easy dude.

            If they’re Nazi fuckheads, you’re probably getting downvoted. Not a lot of ambiguity there.

          • Black Smallbeard

            the point we are trying to make is when does one become a “nazi fuckhead”? the left throws around “nazi” so much its lost all real meaning. like i said down there: nowadays, “nazi” is just someone who doesnt hate white people or their own whiteness

          • Mosh Hoff

            Dude if you’re trolling you’re doing a really good job.

          • Sid Vicious Promos

            Actually I agree with him. The word Nazi, although terrible, has lost a lot of its meaning due to it being used by anyone who doesn’t agree with what they believe.

          • Sid Vicious Promos

            If you are in favor of those things you are a Nazi. I can say that without hesitation. It’s just stupid to call all Trump supporters or anyone who isn’t in favor of the Democrats a Nazi as the Republicans are not a hate group.

          • Mosh Hoff

            But Richard Spencer is a Nazi. Without hesitation.

          • Sid Vicious Promos

            He is but not all Republicans are Nazis and not all Nazis are Republican.

          • Mosh Hoff

            Dude no one’s saying that.

          • Sid Vicious Promos

            I thought you were. I apologize for arguing.

          • Black Smallbeard

            i dont think that anyone is arguing that being an actual neonazi isnt being a nazi

          • Sir Ukkometso The Based

            I don’t hate my whiteness nor white people. That’s a pretty fucking retarted opinion

          • Black Smallbeard

            then youre probably a nazi

          • Mosh Hoff

            Takes one to know one.

          • Black Smallbeard

            see what i mean

          • Sir Ukkometso The Based

            Oh shit man i had no idea

          • Sid Vicious Promos

            Oh no!

          • Sir Ukkometso The Based

            PÖÖ!

          • Sid Vicious Promos

            In my opinion a Nazi fuckhead is someone who believes in the practices of the Third Reich and is part of actual hate groups. If you’re wondering Republicans are not a hate group. The Aryan Brotherhood is.

          • more beer

            The Aryan Brotherhood is a prison gang. Who have been known to do business with both black and Hispanic gangs. It is more about making money than anything else.

          • Rob M

            Yeah…but that dosnt mean theyre not white supremacist at heart…theyre just greedy white supremacists

          • more beer

            That is fine. But there are white supremacist groups. That are much more involved in actual hate than they are. They are more of an organized crime group.

          • Rob M

            They were started as a prison gang if I remember correctly…Im sure thats got a lot to do with it as well, as most prisoners tend to segregate by race

          • more beer

            That is what I was trying to point out. They are more of a white trash mafia.

          • Black Smallbeard

            sounds like some of my neighbors

          • more beer

            I live in a pretty mixed neighborhood. So I don’t have to deal with too much white trash.

          • Black Smallbeard

            hard to get away from some of it in the mountains. most of them arent bad people, just trashy

          • more beer

            I tend to take people on a case by case basis.

          • Black Smallbeard

            i just want them to clean up their fucking lawns

          • more beer

            Hahaha! In my gentrified neighborhood. That isn’t an issue.

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            A high ranking boss of some black gang once testified in favor of a high ranking Aryan Brotherhood member because both tried to get rid of some other black gang leader they were both enemies with. Like you said, the AB is just the hillbilly version of the mob; if cooperation is profitable, mobsters don’t really care about skin color.

          • more beer

            Exactly. True white supremacists. Don’t do business with races.

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            By now the “white supremacist” tag has become nothing more than a shtick.

          • more beer

            Actually I think there are things much worse a human being can be. Not saying I support that choice. But murderer, child rapist, rapist. All come to mind. Along with a bunch of other things.

          • Black Smallbeard

            you done did it now, nazi

          • more beer

            People are going to believe and live the way they are going to live. There is nothing myself or anyone else can do about that. Is all about how you live your life.

          • Black Smallbeard

            typical white fixed gender patriarchal response, you damned nazi

          • more beer

            I can’t help it if I base things on reality.

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            Well the AB definitely are murderers and, in some cases, rapists.

          • more beer

            I agree. I also don’t associate with them. I ran across quite a few of these guys when I lived in New Mexico. I even had one who was a neighbor. Would I say hello if I saw him sure. Did I hangout and drink beer with him fuck no.

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            Despite the fact that my country – like basically all Western countries – is incredibly safe. Yet shady people exist everywhere and I’ve come across many of them. I’ve met Italians, Turks, Kurds, Dutch, Moroccans, Caribbeans and Albanians that all have at least connections to rather organized criminal activities. I’ve seen many of them getting arrested, including a friend of mine I grew up with.
            I have a friend whose father is originally from Southeast London. He has plenty of family members back there who used to be in deep with a local crime family (not going to say which one, but they’ve moved to Essex now and if you look around a bit there are quite a few articles about them on the web).
            You’d be surprised how easy some of them are to get along with.

          • more beer

            Trust me growing up in New York I have met many shady people who come across like that. So I do know how they can be. It is when you start doing business with them. That things can get bad for you.

          • Howard Dean

            It’s actual not that easy, and I explained why in my post above. Mikko and his projects have been discussed quite a bit on the ToH before, and I didn’t realize he was now persona non grata. He hasn’t always been, but now he is. I wasn’t aware of that. That’s why I suggested the definitive list, that way no questions are asked (and we don’t have to keep having these blowups, because I honestly don’t like having them, either). A comprehensive list would clear it up. Who is going to make it?

          • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

            I don’t know anything about Mikko Aspa’s views on race (I try to avoid this topic if possible) but I always thought his paedophilia themed noise/whatever side project was a sticking point for people.

          • Howard Dean

            He’s definitely not a teddy bear, and I know that. The dude clearly has some unsavory/less-than-mainstream topics in his power electronics projects. His BM projects have always been fairly vanilla in contrast. I just wasn’t aware that he was no longer ToH-friendly, since his stuff had been discussed many times before. That’s what caught me off guard. But I am aware of it now.

        • Sir Ukkometso The Based

          Ain’t Goatmoon somewhat nazi-ish too? I remember aryan this and that in some lyrics.

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            Yeah. They use the imagery a lot. And some lyrics are too.

      • it looks like you went out of your way to examine the console just to find something to be offended about. It’s a downvote, HD. No one cares. Here, have another.

        • Howard Dean

          Going out of my way? Let’s go through the process:

          1. Notice my comment is below other comments with fewer upvotes.

          2. “Hmm, must be downvoted?”

          3. Check source. See it’s downvoted.

          [a total of 10 seconds elapses]

          It doesn’t take a lot of effort.

          I ask questions because I honestly can’t figure out what is OK and what isn’t. I didn’t think my comment was off topic, controversial, or in poor taste, so I asked the question. Downvotes are clear indicators of dislike, but they are also unclear in reasoning. I couldn’t figure out what I did wrong. That’s why I asked.

          • I mean, who gives a fuck if a random stranger on the internet downvotes you?

          • Howard Dean

            I explained this literally 6-7 times lower in this comment thread, but I will do it again here:

            It’s not about “caring” about a downvote. The reason I made the initial comment was because I was confused as to why I received negative feedback (the downvote), since I didn’t believe my comment was off topic or controversial at all. I wasn’t sure what part of my comment was being disapproved of. Downvotes state clear dislike/disapproval but do not give reasoning the same way a comment does (“hey, don’t talk about [artist] here because we think he is an asshole.”). So in an effort to find out what was wrong in my comment (so that I wouldn’t mention that person again in the future), I asked the question about being downvoted. I was trying to receive clarification. In doing so, I found out that Clandestine Blaze/Mikko Aspa were the reasons behind the disapproval, and now I know that he and his projects shouldn’t be discussed on the ToH. I wouldn’t have known this had I not questioned the downvote.

          • Black Smallbeard

            Howard Dean: The man just cares too much❤

          • Howard Dean

            Feelz ‘n’ shit.

          • Fair enough I guess. I just don’t think I would have cared enough in your situation lol.

          • Howard Dean

            I used to not care, and would’ve just posted a YouTube video of some band to piss people off. But after being banned and realizing I could (and would) be banned for discussing forbidden artists, I’ve had to take it a bit more seriously (if I want to continue posting). That’s why I was keen on figuring out which of the bands I mentioned was forbidden.

    • Black Smallbeard

      wait whaaaaat

      • Howard Dean

        Are you talking about the new surprise Clandestine Blaze? Yeah dude, and it’s fucking killer so far. Gonna be a good one.

        • Black Smallbeard

          daaaang

        • Black Smallbeard

          holy shit this is good

  • RA The Rugged Man put on a hell of a show last night. AFRO and Happy Accident opened up and I was impressed with those acts as well.

    • Señor Jefe El Rosa

      Killer!

    • Rain Poncho W.

      Awesome. The show I saw was awesome as well.

      • more beer

        How did you like Full of Hell? I know Immolation brought it so I don’t need to ask that.

        • Rain Poncho W.

          Full of Hell was solid. Talked to their singer a bit. He likes the blog.

          • more beer

            Solid grind to say the least. I didn’t really have money for merch when I saw them last month. So I am glad I will be seeing them in two weeks. When I have a little more cash.

          • Rain Poncho W.

            All I bought last night was the new Immo cd since they were selling it early ahead of the release. It rules, btw.

          • more beer

            It comes out the day before I see them. What I have heard from it was very good. It is always good seeing those guys.

          • Rain Poncho W.

            They played 4 songs from it. I actually snagged the set list!

          • more beer

            Nice If I was there I would have gotten it signed for you. You buddy grabbed the Demolition Hammer set list from Denver Black Sky. I got that signed for him. He was pretty stoked about that.

          • Rain Poncho W.

            I actually spoke to Bob Vigna briefly, but he was kinda getting swarmed. Seems like a real nice guy. I briefly crunched some mental math for him to see how much the FoH guys owed them (since FoH were the ones charging credit cards).

          • more beer

            Bob and Ross are a couple of the nicest people in metal hands down. I wouldn’t even know who was doing the charging. As I am on their guest list. Did you get a solid answer from them on that?

          • Rain Poncho W.

            I paid with card, so the guy from FoH was the one who took my number. He then handed cash to Bob.

          • more beer

            That’s cool. As long as they get paid.

          • Rain Poncho W.

            I’m probably going to write about the show which is why I’m not going fully into details here, but I even enjoyed the Cavalera set.

          • more beer

            That’s cool. Glad you had a good show.

          • Jealousy intensifies

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            Solid grind? Roots of Earth are Consuming My Home basically is the best grind record of the past 7 years.

        • xengineofdeathx

          Love their vocalist, have only recently got into em, but it’s right up my alley.

          • more beer

            I am looking forward to seeing them again in two weeks at the Summit. Which has much better sound than where I saw them last month.

      • That tour is headed my way this week, but I can’t go because it’s a weeknight in the city. A couple of my buddies are going to see it.

  • High on Vallenfyre

    Good morning everyone! I feel better now that I know I’m not the only one who can’t really get into black metal.

    • KyleJMcBride

      I’m trying. I’m sampling bits of what others are posting, but I just can’t hang with it.

      • High on Vallenfyre

        I try every once in a while, tastes change, but it just hasn’t clicked for me.

        • Rob M

          Have either of you tried some of the more melodic bands like that Uada album everyone was into last year or the the Katavasia full length from a couple years ago…

          …if not that, some of the folk/pagan/viking stuff like Blot or Forefather…thats the stuff that first got me into black metal

          • KyleJMcBride

            I’ve tried from a variety of angles with no success.

          • Rob M

            Fair enough…If something dosnt click it dosnt click. I get where youre coming from though, I tend to avoid Grind myself…just cant get into it

      • James

        Its my least favorite genre in metal. try the folkyier stuff. also Woe is pretty fantastic.

    • Señor Jefe El Rosa

      What’s your normal jams? Perhaps we can help find something a tad more suitable for you.

      • High on Vallenfyre

        I do like a lot of “blackened ” stuff, just straight up black doesn’t usually do much for me. That Nidingr is sounding alright though.

        • Señor Jefe El Rosa

          Ah, gotcha man

          • High on Vallenfyre

            I appreciate you trying to help though!

        • Dumpster Lung

          Nice username!

    • I like things that are blackened but as a singular genre I can’t do it.

      • Señor Jefe El Rosa

        Like chicken and fish?

        • KyleJMcBride

          YUM.

    • This and another band that have since stopped making music helped me get into BM last year. This is still one of my favorite albums too.https://dusktone.bandcamp.com/album/enisum-arpitanian-lands-dusk028cd-dusk028lp

  • Sid Vicious Promos

    Yay, Elimination Chamber is on tonight!

  • Also: We agree with Lief that the new Endalok is a step up from the last one.

    Also: This is some excellent trees n’ shit.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc6iyPxkQN8

  • Sid Vicious Promos

    Today is Sunday Doomy Sunday in my opinion because of all the snow in my area. Here’s what I’m listening to. I’ve gotten heavily into this album as it resonates with me. It knows how I feel.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGqUo7a7J_I&t=575s

    • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

      I gotta hand it to you JJD, that’s a great fucking album.

  • Primordial Chaos

    Black Metal is born from sorrow, pain and despair, that Endalok fucking rips, like other Icelandic bands like Misthyrming/Sinmara split and Almyrkvi and soon I’ll check White Death, and yep, Mgla still sounds fucking great, bye Toilet:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BqGgqyfLCs

  • Sid Vicious Promos

    More doom for this Sunday Doomy Sunday.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqN3TmTb7gU

    • Señor Jefe El Rosa

      Add some Candlemass to your playlist, good sir.

      • KyleJMcBride

        Or a better EW album.

        • Señor Jefe El Rosa

          Hahaha!

  • KyleJMcBride

    I’mma just sit over here and watch the circular firing squad, maybe eat some pizza.

    • Sid Vicious Promos

      I’m going to watch some old episodes of Nitro.

      • KyleJMcBride

        Sounds good.

        • Sid Vicious Promos

          I decided to watch Raw episodeso from 1997 instead.

          • KyleJMcBride

            even better

    • Señor Jefe El Rosa

      I’m gonna listen to Clutch later. Makes me feel good inside.

  • Honestly metal in general is doing pretty damn good this year so far.

  • Something must be going on in the world.
    People I’ve known for years are being split apart. I hope we can find the answer soon…so we can all go back to being fwiends!

  • GoatForest

    Mmmmmm. Black metal.

  • Steve Lafontaine

    New Arizmenda as well. They’ve been on fire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjL4pSzog9w