Howard Dean’s Kvlt ov Personality: Incorrigible Apathy?

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You know that feeling, when you’re readying yourself to say something and you need to take a series of deep breaths, because you know that it’s going to be divisive and potentially make random strangers hate you? I’m feeling that way right now.

[deep breath]

[exhale]

Here goes.

I fucking love Arghoslent and Grand Belial’s Key. They are two of my very favorite bands. They make amazing metal that is sharp, unique, and headbangable. They have some of the best album art ever. If I had to make a list of my top five favorite bands of all time, they would both make it. To quote Eric Cartman, I’m seriously, you guys. These bands are ridiculously good. These are bands for which the old metal term “riffs for days” is inadequate. We’re talking riffs for weeks. We could have a month’s worth of  Riff of the Week material exclusively with these discographies.

I could be classified as a dedicated supporter of Arghoslent and Grand Belial’s Key—both directly and indirectly. I’ve given these two bands a lot of my money, as I own damn near their entire catalogues in physical format, and I’ve sang their praises and recommended their music to many a fellow metal fan over the years.

gbk2

Arghoslent is a death metal band from Oakton, Virginia, that is currently on hold due to the 2006 death of their most recent vocalist. They were formed in 1990, releasing several demos independently on cassette, before releasing their well-received debut album, Galloping Through the Battle Ruins, in 1998 on Wood Nymph Records. Since then, they have released a further two studio albums (both on France’s excellent Drakkar Productions), along with several EPs and split albums (including a 2001 split with the amazing Australian death metal band, Stargazer).[i] Arghoslent mix the brutality of old school death and thrash metal with the soaring (and sometimes beautiful) melodies of traditional heavy metal bands. Think Possessed or Repugnant riffs mixed with the majesty of Manilla Road or Pagan Altar. Yes, that awesome. Try a couple tracks on for size and try not to shit your pants:

Grand Belial’s Key is a black metal band, also from Oakton, Virginia, that is made up of several members from Arghoslent (including guitarist/bandleader/composer extraordinaire for both bands, Alexander Halac a.k.a Gelal Necrosodomy/ Pogrom). They may be classified as “black metal,” but make no mistake: they are a different kind of black metal, and they fucking rip. Formed in 1992, GBK is known—like their death metal cousin, Arghoslent–for their indelible trademark sound: insanely catchy riffage slathered in black metal and punk, with more than a tinge of NWOBHM and traditional heavy metal influence (think Taake meets Maiden—seriously). It’s a unique sound, and one that has withstood both the test of time, and the insanely difficult standards of black metal elitists. Nary can a USBM (United States black metal) hater finish a typical rant about “how bad the American scene sucks” without adding the allowance, “Except for Grand Belial’s Key. They’re the only good black metal band from the States.”[ii] GBK have released three studio albums, as well as several EPs and splits, and is currently signed to World Terror Committee.[iii] Try them out, but have an oxygen mask and defibrillator handy:

Now, some of you lifelovers are probably sitting there, scratching your balls or fallopian tubes, and saying to yourself, “What’s the big fucking deal, Howard? Why are you going on about people hating you? So you like a couple of metal bands? Pssssh!” And some of you trve kvltists out there are probably fondling yourself with a Mutiilation back patch while listening to a Tukaaria demo and saying, “Me too, brutha! Byah, m’er-f’ers!” However, some of you out there right now are fighting mad and undoubtedly saying to yourself, “That asshole behind the stupid ass Howard Dean schtick is a chump and a lowlife, and I really don’t like him anymore. I kind of wish I could shank him with a screwdriver.” Now, why might those in this last group feel this way?

Because the men behind Grand Belial’s Key and Arghoslent are racists. Yes, racists. Like REAL racists. Like, “I openly admit that I have racialist views in interviews,” racist. The band members have been pretty transparent with their beliefs, and have made them known in several interviews.[iv] The name “Arghoslent” is a pseudo-Greek amalgam roughly translated as “slave ship” or “slave fortress.” The band has worked with many bands from the underground racist/NS scene, including Mudoven and Der Sturmer, and have released music on the now defunct NSBM (“National Socialist Black Metal”) record label Vinland Winds.[v] It’s safe to say that the guys behind Grand Belial’s Key and Arghoslent are assholes, and probably not guys you’d want to know personally.

Arghoslent playing a concert, date unknown.

Grand Belial’s Key chumming around.

But what about the music? GBK bandleader Gelal (known under the moniker Pogrom in Arghoslent) has been quick to point out that listeners should not construe the personal beliefs of the band members (which are decidedly racist) with the themes, content, concept, and music of their bands. One could make sense of this. This could be (relatively speaking) almost cut-and-dry. But Grand Belial’s Key and Arghoslent aren’t singing about some mundane Autopsy or Dark Funeral type shit. The lyrics are quasi-historical, but they are doused with more than touch of racist accelerant. Grand Belial’s Key has an album named Kosherat and a song titled “The Shitagogue”. Arghoslent has albums titled Incorrigible Bigotry and Hornets of the Pogrom, and songs named “Flogging the Cargo,” “Hereditary Taint,” and “Rape of a Slave.”[vi] In the booklet for Incorrigible Bigotry, the sentence “Recorded South of the Mason-Dixon line” is placed prominently in the liner notes, as is a prompt to “Send all hate mail” to their current address.

What about this view from the band(s) that the music should be understood in a separate context from the opinions/beliefs of the musician? We’ve all heard this before. Many times. It’s a popular opinion held by many people. Tom Araya fronts a metal band notorious for their anti-Christian and Satanic lyrics (Slayer, for you lifelovers and mouth-breathers), but is a Catholic in his personal life. He has gone on record many times to establish and reaffirm the dichotomy between an artist’s personal life and beliefs, and those expressed in his or her art. He is not a Satanist, he is not anti-Christian, and he does not think God Hates Us All. It’s all for effect, a commentary of sorts, and, as he so deftly puts it, art can imitate and reflect life—even the dark reflections.[vii] And many other musicians over the years have made a point to defend themselves from the content of their own music, lyrics, and imagery, arguing that it is all fantasy, fictionalized for effect, metaphorical, or strictly for fun. But with GBK and Arghoslent, we appear to be getting this argument in reverse. An artist attempting to defend his art from himself? “Don’t judge my (not so) latently racist music just because I am a racist?”

gbk4 

I do not consider myself a racist. I do not have any racist or racialist views or opinions, and I do not hate anyone simply because of their skin pigmentation, bone structure, anthropological history, country of origin, or general lot in life. In this way, I feel the way many a Gen-X’er or Gen-Y’er probably feels—like we’ve learned from the shittiness of the past, we understand that people can be terrible shitheads, and as a result, we try not to live and act like terrible shitheads ourselves. As such, we sign a proverbial social contract that outlines our voluntary agreement to be a relatively well-adjusted member of society. Scream “anarchy” from the Revolutionary Command Center in your grandma’s basement all you want, but that’s the cold hard truth for the majority of us.

So, call it my white male privilege, my apathy and ambivalence, hell, call it some type of suppressed racism I don’t acknowledge. Call it something. Call it anything. Just call it [enter Anton Chigurgh with captive bolt pistol]. But I am charmed by and enamored with this music, and this music is made by a group of racists. Lyrically and thematically, I find these songs uncomfortable—even repulsive—but I can’t help but be pulled in by the hypnotic and galloping riffs, the dizzying guitar solos, and the hammering drum beats. I very much enjoy listening to Grand Belial’s Key and Arghoslent, even if I can’t sufficiently defend it.

In conclusion, I leave you with Arghoslent sans voice—that is, free of its vitriolic and poisonous lyrics—Arghoslent’s masterful track Incorrigible Bigotry, off of the album of the same name. An eight and a half minute instrumental display of soulful and supreme riffery that will (almost) make you feel warm inside.

Enjoy.

Or don’t. I know some of you will never press play.

 


Notes:

[i] For more info about Arghoslent, including their full discography, visit the metal-archives. http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Arghoslent

[ii] I don’t agree with this elitist statement. The U.S. has produced plenty of great black metal. See also: Averse Sefira, Negative Plane, and Avichi.

[iii] For more info about GBK, visit their metal-archives page at http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Grand_Belial’s_Key/270

[iv] Here’s a quote from an interview: “Many continents far beyond Europe have known great empires, but conspicuously sub-Saharan Africa has not. One of the oldest lands trod by man has never mastered architecture, cultivation, technology, science, or any other prerequisite for civilization. In the United State one constantly endures unpleasant interactions with the descendants of these dark and unaccomplished people, and therein is a source of disappointment and irritation that is manifest in some of the descriptions in our songs.” Link: http://z4.invisionfree.com/IcedEarth/ar/t180.htm Also, a link to another interview: http://www.supremebrutality.net/interviews/grandbelialskey.php

A quick google search will produce many more.

[v]http://www.discogs.com/Arghoslent-Arsenal-Of-Glory/release/1158488

[vi] Lyrics for the song Flogging the Cargo reference “pitch brutes” and “filthy mongrel dogs” destined to fail because of a “flawed genome”: http://www.songlyrics.com/arghoslent/flogging-the-cargo-lyrics/

[vii] Tom Araya and Slayer info paraphrased from Sam Dunn’s “Metal: A Headbanger’s Journey.”

 

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  • Varg is a piece of shit but Hvis Lyset Tar Oss and Filosofem rule and I will listen to them.

    • Gurp

      Aren’t most of Varg’s lyrics in Norwegian anyway?

      • Metaphysical Anus

        Ja.

  • Nazi punks fuck off.

  • Not gonna touch this with a 50-foot pole. I refuse in any way to support people with these kinds of views, no matter what their music sounds like.

    • CÖÄL RÖLL FRÖM THE TÖILET BÖWL

      Agreed. Especially after seeing other intolerant images recently in other places that many here know of. I feel like this isn’t a good representation of what this community stands for.

      • Howard Dean

        I in no way, shape, or form intended to represent the “community” as a whole, nor do I believe an article like this blankets this online community in some type of collective opinion.

        I am able to separate music (and art in general) from the artist. I can enjoy art made by terrible people. That is the crux of my message.

        • I can respect that, for sure. As long as a person takes the time read this article, they can clearly understand that you’re not endorsing the beliefs of the band members, just their music.

          • Howard Dean

            Thank you. My intent was to tackle a very difficult topic, one that I deal with quite often (since extreme metal is filled with assholes), and try to make sense of it. I know it’s not easy, and it is certainly uncomfortable. But I’ve always felt that topics of this ilk stoke very fruitful discussions.

          • W.

            Like I said, this was well written. Also, you do a good job of providing objective commentary.

          • Howard Dean

            Thanks Dubya! I appreciate it!

        • CÖÄL RÖLL FRÖM THE TÖILET BÖWL

          Thank you for the clarification.

        • CÖÄL RÖLL FRÖM THE TÖILET BÖWL

          The fundamental challenge with this statement that we should all be uneasy with, is that by publishing this article, an outsider(hater, troll, rival) can easily construe this blog endorsing the subject matter. The disclaimers about the incendiary subject matter came so far into the piece that I almost feel like I was tricked into intangibly supporting the subject matter because of the layout and flow of the content herein. I think that when controversial subject matter that can be offensive to many people is going to be talked about…there need to be disclaimers right up front to give fair warning.

          • I can definitely understand where you’re coming from, but making an opinion/assumption of something before you read the entire article would be an oversight on the part of the reader, not of the author. I’m sure the piece was purposefully organized in the way it was in order to make the reader think about what the beliefs of the artist who creates the material are, and how that might affect what they think of said material.

          • CÖÄL RÖLL FRÖM THE TÖILET BÖWL

            Kind of like one of those “taste this, it’s great” things where it turns out “surprise you just ate fried shit?”

          • Exactly, but I think that’s part of the journey @disqus_SuTZzQbXC5:disqus means for the reader to take. Similar to the story TIME ran a while back about millenials and how we’re all self-obsessed pieces of shit. If you actually read the entire article, it goes on to say that those very same qualities they hate are what we’ll use to change the world for the better. Big problem with that article was that the part beyond the shit-talking was behind a paywall on their website.

          • Howard Dean

            I don’t buy that. Trolls and enemies will always find places in which to poke holes, and will always find things to misconstrue. That’s what they do. If they’re so dense that they attempt such things, it becomes obvious that they either didn’t read the piece, or lack reading comprehension skills.

            The layout of the article was intentional–it was designed to challenge sensibilities and to build tension and drama. That’s a tenet of creative nonfiction.

          • The conversation that this is stirring up is insanely interesting. I’m glad we’re civil enough to talk about things like this in an objective and constructive way here at the Terlet. Thanks again for the article.

          • W.

            There hasn’t really been any insulting or anything yet. I’m impressed with the civility.

          • Scrimm

            Me too. The tolerance and support everyone here has for each other is a great thing.

          • I’m impressed with all of you. Hail the toilet and its inherent maturity.

          • SMOHLG

            Who would of thought?! XD

          • crazytaco_12

            lolbuttz

          • Xan

            It is nice indeed. If this conversation were in any other place it would be a wall of: URE STUPID! NO, YOU’RE STUPID!

          • crazytaco_12

            Just to sort of further elaborate on what A.C.F.P. said, I don’t think their needs to be any disclaimers on an article like this. I actually really liked the flow of it because it shows from HD’s perspective of “I heard this band, thought they kicked ass and couldn’t believe how good they were, and then, oh shit, they’re racists”. Sort of shows the mindset of how you can fall in love with something at first but the skeletons come out of the closet.

        • Poop Mango

          The problem is, how do you separate it when the two are closely intertwined, as in cases like this. When Corpsegrinder sings about a brutal rape and murder for the billionth time, we can view it as a horror story created to elicit an emotional reaction. We’re reasonably sure no one in Cannibal Corpse is ACTUALLY a murderer. Would we view it the same way if his house was raided by police and chopped up women were found in his freezer? That’s the difference here. These songs aren’t just stories or allegories, they’re a call to arms.

          • W.

            Corpsegrinder is basically a big teddy bear in real life, albeit a teddy bear with a tree trunk for a neck.

          • Tyree

            I met him randomly walking around MDF 2 years ago. He’s a super friendly dude. All I could focus on was that giant neck though. I was going to buy him a beer but some lifelover interrupted our conversation.

          • W.

            I’ve bumped into Kirk Windstein a few times. He seemed like a super chill dude, so I was surprised by the backlash he had recently.

          • Tyree

            You talking about the thing at MDF?

          • W.

            Yah, where he ranted about the guy on stage.

          • Tyree

            I don’t know. It seemed like a in-the-moment kind of thing. I’m sure his adrenaline was just pumping and he was angry and tired too. I’d be pissed too I guess, although I would not kick a guy in the face for it.

          • W.

            Haha, I saw the singer of Abysmal Dawn kick a dude in the face. To be fair, the guy took the microphone from Arkaik and said some really racist stuff.

          • Metaphysical Anus

            That’s understandable then.

          • Scrimm

            HAHA I saw Blaze Bayley stomp on a security guys face when he was in Maiden. Bayley climbed down into the audience and when he tried to get back on stage the dumbass kept trying to pull him down until he finally lost his temper.

          • What backlash? Are people confusing him with another “-stein” perhaps? (Axl)

          • W.

            See below.

          • crazytaco_12

            Fact: Kirk Windstein is the nicest dude in metal I have ever met, and many others can attest to this

          • W.

            He seemed really friendly to me. I still wear my “Beard of Doom” shirt that has his picture on it regularly.

          • Howard Dean

            *I will attempt to answer as many comments as I can to benefit discussion, but I must say that I will have difficulty keeping up tonight, and likely will not be able to be as involved this evening as I’d like. I’m home, getting ready to mow the lawn, and I really dislike trying to type on my phone. But I’ll give it a shot
            If this were to happen, I would feel differently about Corpsegrinder the man, but I wouldn’t feel differently about CC’s music. Again, it’s the argument about separating art from its creator(s). If you can, that’s fine, and if you can’t, that’s fine, too. It’s all a matter of opinion, and I will never begrudge someone their own opinion.

          • Poop Mango

            I guess the thing is, at what point do you draw the line? You keep saying “separate the art from its creator”, but we’re talking about racists making racist art. There is not a whole lot of separation there to begin with.

          • Poop Mango

            The other thing is, even if you’re able to ignore the message in the art and still appreciate it, as someone who is, I’m assuming, non-racist, how do you justify forking over money for the art? Because while it’s one thing to listen to the songs on Youtube or download them from a sketchy blogspot site, once you pay for it, your money has gone directly to white nationalists in support of their cause. After that point, it stops being “I like this music in spite of the message it promotes” and becomes “I tacitly approve of the message.”

          • crazytaco_12

            I understand this statement completely, and it’s a good point to bring up, but I don’t think you can fully call this tacit approval. For one, HD wrote an article for anybody on the web to see clearly expressing an avid disapproval for this band’s beliefs. Also worth mentioning is the fact that a lot of products I consume on the daily (and a good general portion of the U.S. and other nations) are the direct result of slave labor. While this obviously isn’t much of argument against HD’s support of these bands being “tacit approval”, it shows that tons of people are guilty of this same mindset of knowing of the dark underbelly of what you’re buying, but wanting the direct rewards from said products that virtually have no proxies.

          • Poop Mango

            I personally have no problems with being held responsible for the things I buy. Some of it makes me pretty uncomfortable and I won’t pretend to be blameless in the way the things I purchase affect the oppression of people here and elsewhere. That said, music both falls under the “luxury item” category of things and is pretty easy to obtain freely. Every dollar sent to Arghoslent is a message that says “keep on keepin on” in a way that an anonymous rapidgator download isn’t. If you just have to listen to this amazing music, it’s pretty easy to do so without giving them any money for it. Just ask Metallica.

          • crazytaco_12

            Well, I don’t think HD is trying to get off “blamelessly” here just by writing this article. Not to sound like too much of a stick in the mud, but I’ve never illegally downloaded anything, and I don’t know how to. I can’t speak for HD, but if I heard a band like this that I liked as much as HD claims to like this band, I’d probably be forced to buy that band’s merch. I don’t know exactly how underground this band is either, so I don’t how readily obtainable it is on downloading sites. Either way though, I 100 percent agree with you that no matter what, we are part of the gears when we throw our money (in one way or another) into the pot.

          • Howard Dean

            I replied to this consumption post earlier, but it appears as though it didn’t go through/ get posted correctly. I voluntarily give these bands my money because I only buy music in physical format. I do not download music. So my spending money on these bands is less about direct and volitional “support” and more about my love for CDs and collecting music in physical form.

      • CÖÄL RÖLL FRÖM THE TÖILET BÖWL

        I would like to add that while I’m not shy to having thoughtful conversation on provocative topics, this one is pretty volatile.

        • Howard Dean

          I definitely agree that it is volatile. It’s an extremely difficult topic to broach. But I’ve always felt it is important to tackle such topics.

      • Metaphysical Anus

        What are these intolerant images?

    • W.

      I’m with you here. I have a hard time divorcing the art from the man except in Lovecraft’s case, which I guess is hypocritical. Maybe it’s easier with literature?

      • Lovecraft’s work wasn’t entirely based on his views like these bands are. He also has the benefit of being from a time where his views were more socially acceptable.

        • W.

          I think that has a lot to do with it. Like when your grandparents (I say “your” because a lot of people I know can relate to this) use a racial slur without batting an eye.

          • Lovecraft is also dead, so he’s not benefiting from book purchases or movie rights. Buying albums from these shitheads goes into their pockets, reaffirms their beliefs, and gives them support, whether it’s intentional or not.

          • KJM

            He barely made a living from his work when he was alive.

          • W.

            That’s actually likely one of the things that caused him to die at such a young age. Dude was malnourished because he didn’t make much money.

          • Scrimm

            He went the same way my dad did. Colon cancer and not going to the doctor until it was too late.

          • W.

            He lived a pretty rough life. Sorry about your dad.

          • Scrimm

            Yeah thanks. I have a lot to be thankful for though even in that situation. When they went in for the first surgery and found out how bad it was the doctor told me he had 3 months and he ended up lasting almost 2 years and most of that time was pretty good. He was doing so well with treatment that if the whole insurance fiasco with Obummer and the genius of a governor we have here had not happened who knows, he might have still been here. Either way we got a lot more time than we thought we were going to have and I am very grateful for that. All I’ll say is go to the doctor guys.

        • Scrimm

          Exactly what I was going to say.

        • Nordling Rites Ov Karhu

          And as far as I understand Lovecraft based his views (at least partially) on what where then accepted scientific facts. Which is why I can’t really put him into the same cup with anyone who has no actual basis for anything they say but hatred and prejudice.

          • W.

            There’s definitely an aspect of historical criticism there.

      • Metaphysical Anus

        I have the same problem when it comes to Schopenhauer and Darwin.

      • It’s tough. I have to wonder how many folks are fans of something like “Rosemary’s Baby” when Polanski is an unrepentant rapist.

        • Negrodamus

          I dug Polanski’s recent film Carnage. I’m not a huge Woody Allen fan but I absolutely loved Midnight In Paris.

          • KJM

            I like Allen’s older movies, haven’t cared much recently.

          • Negrodamus

            Check out Midnight On Paris I loved that flick!

        • Ferris Mueller

          Good lyrics in metal are a bonus – nothing more, nothing less.To be a fan of metal in general, it is prerequisite to suspend reality and take lyrics with a grain of salt. As long as they don’t actually go out and kill fuckers, who gives a shit? Same principal applies with hollywood; the whole place is full of perverted scum.

          • Christian Molenaar

            I would say that when I hear Cannibal Corpse or some other example of violence-themed metal it’s obvious to me that it’s an over-the-top joke on the part of otherwise pretty normal dudes. The sketchiness begins to arise when you get into the territories of legitimately hateful artists who use their work as a platform to espouse violent (or otherwise questionable) views they actually hold.

          • W.

            That one noise group you mentioned where they choked each other sounded like awful people.

          • Negrodamus

            What was the name of that group? Lol

          • Xan

            There are bands out there that I would never go to see live purely because I’m scared of them.

          • Christian Molenaar

            In that case, I don’t think you want to know what @disqus_kqxyUNPxty:disqus is talking about.

          • Xan

            Probably not. I’ve seen some pretty sick videos of live performances. I can’t even take the Gorgoroth-esque decapitated goat heads everywhere.

          • Christian Molenaar

            If you thought that was bad, you DEFINITELY want nothing to do with what we’re talking about.

          • Poop Mango

            “Same principal applies with hollywood; the whole place is full of perverted scum.”

            Sounds like my kind of place

        • Occams_Razor_Ramon

          I think it’s easier with a movie because the creator isn’t as “In your face” as on an album. You can largely ignore who the director was while watching a film. It’s much harder to do that with, say, a vocalist.

        • KJM

          As I said about Allen, a lot of people worked on Rosemary’s Baby besides Polanski. I won’t blame Mia Farrow and John Casavettes for Polanski’s crime.

          • CONAN THE MOTHERFUCKING KING

            Polanski was always cheating on sharon tate which sickened me, and maybe if he would have been around he would have been able to save her life but he was no doubt off galavanting around with some other woman. And no woman could hold a candle to sharon tate in the looks department.
            As far as the Twisted Sister comments on the other site don`t take it personally i am doing some heavy trolling to get some excitement going there. It`s about as dead in there as the coney island amusement park in off season.

          • KJM

            Yeah, that place is seriously dead nowadays It’s not even fun to lurk.

          • Virgil

            Are they still the #1 metal site?

          • KJM

            Were they ever?

          • Virgil

            Haha that’s what it says every time I type there name.

          • Virgil

            I saw on some documentary that Polanski fell into a deep depression after she died and he still haven’t came out of it.
            Plus that Conan HBO series would have been awesome. Who would you have played Conan? Me HHH.

          • KJM

            Having to survive The Holocaust the way he did would’ve been enough to crack my puny brain.

          • CONAN THE MOTHERFUCKING KING

            It would have to be a complete unknown, momoa just was a shit choice, no offense to him personally but he had already a career with stargate ( was it). And he had the wrong look. Tom me there is arnold and the john buscema of marvel version of conan. I liked arnolds more natural build in the first film , he got super cut for the destroyer and i did`nt like it. The destroyer was a horrible movie across the board, the pg rated, sub par effects, boring battles, useless sidekick, a good looking princess that didn`t get naked, no sex. wilt chamberlain & grace jones perhaps giving the worst performances i have ever seen in a major motion picture. I mean since when is either one an actor, the last i checked he was a basketball player and she was some kind of elcletic new wave singer. Disastrous, killed the franchise.
            Now with the Legend of Conan with arnold as king coming up (hopefully) the series will be redeemed.
            Finding a new Conan would be very laborious indeed. Casting well known actors in marvel or dc comics can be disastrous as well.
            Here is my ideal conan next to arnold.

          • CONAN THE MOTHERFUCKING KING

            ……first is john buscema,
            second is a great joe jusko buscema intrepretation.

      • Perhaps because literature isn’t as easily consumable and immediate as music?

        • W.

          And maybe has more of a historical lens to it?

          • KJM

            Also HPL renounced his racist views before he passed on, better late than never.

          • W.

            I think you mentioned that during our ongoing series, and I’m glad to hear it because it was something I wasn’t previously aware of.

          • KJM

            Some more recent biographies talk about it, I believe. HPL’s Socialist friends convinced him that he was wrong.

    • Negrodamus

      HD I also think this is an excellent article.

      • Howard Dean

        Thanks man!

        • Scrimm

          I agree with NegroD, excellent article. Nothing wrong with a socially relevant topic that promotes intelligent discussion. I personally don’t think avoiding racism and pretending it doesn’t exist is the way to end it, but rather recognizing it for what it is and working together to move beyond it and making it an unfortunate part of the past. I am so happy that I got to live in the barracks for years with about 90 other people, probably 70 percent of who were of a different ethnicity than me. I learned so much and met some of the best people I have known in my life.

          Edit: Good to see everyone here has the right idea about it, whether you choose to enjoy the music or not.

          • Xan

            Ignoring an issue never leads to anything good. I’ve always had the mindset of talking everything out.

          • Scrimm

            Exactly. Ignore it or pretend like it doesn’t exist and it will just fester, like a disease.

          • Xan

            Like that stanky boil on your inner left thigh that you forget about until it explodes and blasts pus and blood everywhere. You’re welcome for the imagery.

          • CONAN THE MOTHERFUCKING KING

            I find this humorous, at least it is to me, this guy is a foot away from the gorgeous taylor momsen & he is on the phone ! My regret at not seeing her in a club when i could have is very great indeed. Hadn’t heard her stuff at the time.

          • Scrimm

            What a fool, how could he waste that opportunity.

          • CONAN THE MOTHERFUCKING KING

            Once i met a guy at the bar, actually he came up to me and said to join him , his wife and some friends. Turns out he thought i was a nazi because of my shaved head and overall demeanor. I hate to use the cliche of he was a nice guy, but he was because he thought i was one of his own kind, which i of course wasn’t. He wasn’t militant or pushy about his beliefs. He even offered to get me a job at the car parts place he worked. A different side of the coin, even though i did need work i declined with much thanks and talked with some of the other group about music. Him and his wife were the only die hard nazi’s , others in the group were just friends.

          • Scrimm

            I had a guy drill me in the back of the dead at the edge of a pit at a show some years ago and while I was picking myself of the floor this big Nazi laid the guy out.

        • crazytaco_12

          I have to say HD, this is one of the best articles I’ve read so far on TOH. It was very poignant for me, personally, not only for your writing, but for the community behind this mindset. Not to get into the complexities of my life story here, but I’m biracial, and I’ve had to deal with numerous racists within the metal scene. After that whole fiasco with Inquisition (still not sure what to think about it), some of the people commenting on MS disgusted me; some were so quick to stand up for a band that they really knew nothing of their beliefs (or didn’t care about them), but the worst for me were when people were basically telling people to suck it up because “metal is supposed to be offensive” etc. Anyhow, I totally understand liking something that you don’t philosophically agree with like this (I own some Burzum shit; too each their own) and I think bands and subjects like this need to be talked about and addressed within the community, and with the same gravitas that I felt was very prevalent throughout your article. Also gotta give a shoutout to all the commenters here who don’t support this band’s mindset, I’m glad to be in the midst of anti-chodes!

          • Howard Dean

            Well said, and thank you.

          • W.

            Thank you for sharing a little slice of your life with us!

          • Gurp

            Did Inquisition actually turn out to be racist Nazis? Because I saw them open for Behemoth and actually really dug them.

          • crazytaco_12

            Not totally sure about it but I know a dude from the band had a side project that had affiliated Nazi imagery and a song called something like “36 showerheads, 1 gas chamber” or something under Satanic Skinhead, so yeah, that’s what I know outside of rumors

          • Gurp

            Well, that’s pretty damning, seeing as there’s only two dudes in the band.

  • Randall Thor

    I listen to bands that worship Shai’tan even though he tries to kill me on a nearly daily basis. Not really a big deal

  • Metaphysical Anus

    This was really well written. I just can’t listen to these bands, because they hit me in kind of a weak spot. Back in my days, I was a racist and an antisemite. Those days are now long gone and I only think of those days with shame.

  • This is a really well-written post for a really difficult subject. How do you damn the actions of the creator while enjoying the creation?

    • W.

      This really is an interesting piece, and as I mentioned, I have a hard time divorcing a lot of art from the artist. But I think it’s important for us to consider.

      • Poop Mango

        I’m generally fine with separating art from artist. I got angry about people who said they couldn’t watch Woody Allen’s movies because of the accusations that came out. What did any of those movies have to do with pedophilia? But it’s a bit different when the reason to dislike the artist is directly reflected in the art.
        “This band is racist.”
        “Yeah, but you have to separate the art from the artist.”
        “The art is racist, too!”

        • I agree with this.
          Also, I fucking hate Woody Allen movies with a burning passion.

          • Poop Mango

            I’m not a fan, but I hate them because they’re terrible, not because he may touch kids.

          • Metaphysical Anus

            I kind of liked one of his movies, but I don’t remember which one it was.

        • W.

          That’s a really good point. Music seems to be a definite outpouring of belief in many cases.

        • KJM

          A lot of people besides Allen worked to make those movies great, same with Polanski.

          • Poop Mango

            Sure, but generally when you discuss a movie as an art form, you’re talking about the director’s vision, or possibly the writer’s. Any themes or ideas expressed or implied in the film would be the direct result of those individuals.

          • KJM

            Even by those standards a film is the vision of at least two people, but the acting is a huge factor as well. You only need to see both versions of The Shining to prove that. The nature of moviemaking prevents it from being exclusively one person’s vision.

      • KJM

        It’s why I can’t listen to some of the old S.O.D. songs anymore, easier for me not to take it so seriously then.

    • Xan

      I deal with it in books all the time. I’ve taken (and am still taking) a bunch of different literature courses and I’ve had to read some really racist writings. In my World War II literature class, I read Mein Kampf. It was an interesting read despite the horrific ideas in the book.

      • KJM

        I wish I could’ve said the same about Atlas Shrugged. Ugh, what a hard fucking slog that was.

    • nbm02ss

      You pirate their shit. At least, that’s what I do with Burzum.

      It also helps if it’s in a language I’m not a native speaker of, because if I can understand the lyrics it just gets uncomfortable for me.

  • W.

    This is a well-written and thought-provoking piece, HD.

  • Tyree

    This was an interesting read. Tukaaria fucking kill though, Byah!

    • Howard Dean

      Agreed. I’m an unabashed Black Twilight Circle-loving kvltist. Byaaaaaahhh!

      • Tyree

        I’ll be curious to see your end of the year list of bands. I think you and I have pretty similar tastes in metal.

        • Howard Dean

          Definitely. I need to start thinking about putting an actual list together before the year end comes. I don’t want to be scrambling through my memory!

          • Tyree

            Luckily most of my purchases are on my bandcamp collection profile so I can see what I got. Even the stuff in my wishlist too.

          • Howard Dean

            That’s really useful. Might be an incentive to get me to jump both feet into the bandcamp … er, camp. 🙂

          • Negrodamus

            Many of mine are on my Best of 2014 Spotify playlist, which I haven’t really been working on but it will serve as good food for my memory. At least one more will be from Throatruiner Records (I wonder if Direwolves are too punk for the Toilet?) and one just came out and if my expectations are correct one comes out in November =)

            shit can always change, too.

          • W.

            I’m really looking forward to new Godflesh, and I have a definite soft spot for Machine Head.

          • Tyree

            Godflesh is going to be soooooooooo heavy. How heavy? SOOOOOOOOOO HEAVY!

          • W.

            Blackmatter levels of heavy.

          • Tyree

            Indeed.

          • Negrodamus

            Uh, you bringing up Godflesh just made me realize I have to listen to a couple albums over again and may have thrown a wrench in the gears lol

      • W.

        Avichi is pretty cool

        • Tyree
        • Howard Dean

          Avichi is choice. I loved his second album, “The Devil’s Fractal.” That’s his best work so far, in my opinion.

          • W.

            Oh, I checked out Dragged into Sunlight too.

          • Howard Dean

            Byah?! (verdict?)

          • W.

            Byah+!

    • Wizard Aura

      Speaking of bands, racism, and Tukaaria… Didn’t vocalist dude disband Ashdautas because Volahn basically said some racist (pro-Mexican, anti-white) shit in an interview?

    • Simon Phoenix

      Hmm. Tukaaria are pretty awesome. I didn’t know they were racist though.

      • Howard Dean

        I must clarify that in the sentence where I mentioned Mutiilation and Tukaaria, I wasn’t implying that they are racist bands. I just picked two “trve kvlt” bands from different eras/places to describe “typical” bands a “trve kvlt” metalhead who also likes GBK/Arghoslent might dig. It was more an attempt at humor.

  • Poop Mango

    I listened to the songs here, and I’ve given this stuff a try in the past. While I’m not going to make the claim that they’re terrible, they’re completely non-essential bands. I think the fact that they’re white power bands has, perversely, inflated their stock among metalheads. They’re good, but they’re notable for their politics more than their music. If these were just a bunch of guys singing about pagan mythology or science fiction with these riffs, they’d be second-tier at best. But some people get a thrill out of listening to people sing about actual evil, or believe it themselves so these guys get some notoriety because they’re rare among nazi bands in that they’re not a d-grade impersonation of a better band without those politics.

    But hey, listen to whatever music speaks to you. I just don’t know that it’s cool to be supporting this stuff financially in an age where just about anything can be pirated.

    • Interesting point. I wonder if anyone would ever give a shit about Skrewdriver if they hadn’t gone full on white power.

      • FeelTheDarkness

        No

      • FeelTheDarkness
      • Poop Mango

        They started at the right time and were around long enough that, if in an alternate universe, those albums had nothing to do with racism, I’d bet they’d have a devoted enough following among (non-racist) skinheads and punks, but I doubt they’d be as notable or as well known outside the scene. The number of people who’ll go to the mat for their first album is ridiculously out of proportion with how good it was, but it wasn’t terrible.

      • Christian Molenaar

        People give a shit about Skrewdriver?

        • Punx, not people. Sorry for the confusion.

        • Poop Mango

          The number of SHARPs I’ve met over the years who’ll talk about how great their first album was is unreal.

          • Metaphysical Anus

            Wasn’t their first album without the neo-nazi lyrics?

          • Poop Mango

            Yeah. That’s why it’s “acceptable” to like it. But to hear these guys tell it, you’d swear it was the only punk record that ever mattered.

          • Metaphysical Anus

            It’s not even that good. I remember getting bored by it insanely fast.

          • Nordling Rites Ov Karhu

            They love the rest of the catalog but don’t have the guts to admit it. I’ll bet on it

          • Negrodamus

            What’s a SHARP?

          • Rob M

            Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice…skinheads who like the look, but are against racism

          • Negrodamus

            Ah, thanks. Never heard that before.

          • KJM

            SHARPs? Feh. The actual Nazi Skins I’ve met were nicer, more tolerant people(to me anyway). A lot of SHARPs were that way during the 80s because they wanted to avoid bad press, don’t know about now.

          • Poop Mango

            Nazi skins can be ok to deal with as long as you’re white and don’t get them going on the race thing. Skins in general just seem to be guys who like to pick fights though. They’re like hardcore kids in Fred Perry shirts instead of basketball jerseys.

          • KJM

            Nah, I’ve had productive discussions about race with Nazi Skins because we were friends who got high and played D+D a lot. There were just a couple of ’em in the group.

            OTOH, I’ve had plenty of Skins call me “long haired f*gg*t” too. It’s why I do my best to judge people on an individual basis, not always easy.

    • Wizard Aura

      I totally agree, but, dude, did you listen to that instrumental track? Its totally amazing, like a Cormorant song without the boring black metal parts, which basically makes it perfect.

  • I like some as I lay dying stuff but I am reluctant to listen to it after what Tim did.

    • I’m reluctant to listen to it because it’s shit.

      • It really is compared to most of the stuff I have been listening to this year. Fuck it. I will stop listening to it because archspire and friends are better. Thank you for pointing that out. Actually there is probably a lot of old stuff I should remove from my playlist.

      • Scrimm

        Hilarious.

  • Guacamole Jim

    Loved the No Country for Old Men reference. Also I stopped listening to the track as soon as I got to the racism part. I’m playing the instrumental track at the end right now, but I gotta admit that I’m not entirely comfortable.

    Probably the worst thing about it was that I was totally digging the first tune until I learned about the racism. Should I feel retroactively guilty?

    • I think that’s exactly what Howard is trying to get across. Should you? TOUGH QUESTIONS ON THE TOILET TODAY

      • Guacamole Jim

        It’s actually a really difficult thing to answer. I think that there should be a level of separation between the artist and the music, but possibly only for when the music is offensive but the artist is “normal.” Then we ask ourselves “what is the message of the art?” and I think we ought to. From there, we can determine whether or not to throw it out. But if the artist is clearly a shitty person I almost think that it’s wrong to separate the art from the person. I know that when I write music it’s always about something that affects me, usually deeply. And as @disqus_SuTZzQbXC5:disqus said, the lyrics are still racist. I think the conclusion to come to is that even if the message that the artist is trying to get across is separate from themselves as a person, if the artist in question is just a terrible person, the message they’re getting across can’t be anything but terrible, even if it’s not explicitly stating their views.

        Also, even if the music is completely separate from the artist, by watching it and/or paying money for it, you’re giving the artist publicity. Not that I think this post is bad or should be taken down, quite the contrary. But I feel that having read it I can’t bring myself to listen to this music.

        • That is a totally reasonable conclusion. I read Howard’s piece and enjoyed the hell out of it. Couldn’t bring myself to click play though (shouldn’t be surprising, you all know I’m a bleeding heart baby).

          • W.

            I’m a total lifelover, too. Definitely not listening to these bands.

          • Negrodamus

            I’m a libtard but I thought I might press play on one of these tracks.

  • Xan

    I don’t give a fuck what the artist believes in. If people want to have a certain view, they are free to have it. I don’t share any racist views as they are irrational and make the bearer of them look stupid. For me, music is music. I don’t read the lyrics of a band unless I like them intensely. The songs you linked from both bands sounded fucking amazing to me.

    • Cock of Steele

      Being racist must be frustrating too, no matter how hard they try nothing really works out for their side.

      • Xan

        It is pretty satisfying watching them get butt hurt.

        • Metaphysical Anus

          It’s always fun to recommend Guns, Germs, and Steel to a racist.

        • Cock of Steele

          One can only assume that in the case of these guys, Oakton, Virginia is a bit of a gang area. So growing up white around black gangs might make someone a little angry.

          • Xan

            I’m slightly more resistant to hearing racist shit due to my upbringing in North Carolina. Hearing racial slurs is just an everyday occurrence. It’s pathetic but true.

          • Cock of Steele

            I was born in California, and live in a pretty non-racist part of Arizona, plus my mom’s side is all Jewish relatives so I’m tired of hearing guys like these think they’re on some higher plane of existence because they spend every second of everyday being anti-everything.

          • Scrimm

            YES.

          • Xan

            My mom’s side is also Jewish though it is a rather distant connection.

  • Cock of Steele

    Kinda like how I think Nocturnal Fear fucking rip but their guitarist has weird opinions on things. And by weird, I mean weird. But he admits to being a bipolar/schizophrenic anyways so he knows he’s fucking crazy.

    • Jimmy Calhoun

      You do know Slavehunter was also Pist Chris in Angry Aryans, right? Or maybe you didn’t…

  • Not Vincent Bennett

    Grand Belial’s Key is interesting. I gave the songs here a listen and they were good.

  • Simon Phoenix

    I’m pretty much in the same boat as Howard on this one.

    For obvious reasons, I should be the last person who enjoys these two bands. But I do. I believe that Arghoslent in particular is one of the top tier bands in the melodeath genre. Their riffs are on another level. The Purging Fires of War may be one of the greatest melodeath songs ever made.

    When I tell other metalheads this, they almost always ask me the same thing:

    “Are you racist?”
    “No.”
    “The what the fuck is the problem?”

    Do I think the members of these two bands are racist idiots? Absolutely. But I’m able to separate the music from the personal beliefs of its members. Many people are not able to do this, and that’s fine. I just feel that if the music is good, then the personal beliefs shouldn’t matter.
    How many Christians probably listen to Decide or Impeity, do you think?

    Overall, it’s not really an easy subject to tackle but it makes for interesting disscussion.

    • W.

      Love your avatar, by the way. “I’m a blast from the past!”

      • Negrodamus

        I noticed that too, Demolition Man is a *great* corny action flick.

        • W.

          Agreed

        • Not Vincent Bennett

          That movie was a visionary movie that predicted the future with Taco Bell becoming fancy with that new concept restaurant they have out in Florida and such.

          • Poop Mango

            Someone told me the blu ray version changed what restaurant won the fast food wars. I haven’t seen it, but that offends me deeply.

          • Simon Phoenix

            It was changed from Taco Bell to Pizza Hut in certain countries.

          • W.

            lolwut?

      • Simon Phoenix

        Thanks. I picked it because the character sort of fits within the context of a column that I want to start here.

        Plus I just love the shit out of the movie.

        • W.

          It really is a great one. That’s one of my staple cheesy yet awesome action movies. Like Bloodsport.

    • Cock of Steele

      My problem is I like listening to bands and thinking that the members are generally pretty cool guys, it’s harder to enjoy them when I know they band members are complete assholes about everything. There are exceptions yes.

    • Xan

      Your opinion is what mine is too. To me, music is music. I just listen and enjoy. Your example of Christians listening to Deicide is interesting because my friends ask me that all the time. “How are you a Christian when you listen to a bunch of satanic shit?” It doesn’t matter to me. It’s just audio waves.

      • Scrimm

        THANK YOU. I am so tired of people thinking I need to have such a narrow spectrum of audio or visual entertainment because of my personal beliefs. It’s no better than people ridiculing me for such beliefs.

    • That’s a good point, but I can’t quite equate racism to atheism or anti-religious rhetoric. A very good friend of mine that used to play guitar with me is Christian, but he loves all kinds of Death and Black metal that talks about worshiping Satan and bringing down Christianity. I think this will always come down to the individual.

      • Gurp

        Well, it’s bigotry all the same.
        I think the difference with Satanic/anti-religious lyrics in metal is that it’s so prevalent in the more extreme stuff that you’d be missing out on A LOT material if you filtered it out. Whereas NS/racist stuff is a niche within a niche with a niche. Within a niche.

  • Cock of Steele

    I like this we’re getting all serious and stuff.

    • It’s a bit of a departure from BDubs Bro.

      • Cock of Steele

        That’s true. On articles like these, I have a hard time getting humorous.

      • Pretty crazy contrast of moods in here today, haha. I’m really enjoying it, though.

        • Guacamole Jim

          It’s a good day on the Toilet! Laughter all morning, guilt all afternoon…….

      • Cock of Steele

        Oh god, I just looked up the youtube comments for these songs, youtube commenting needs to be flushed hard.

        • If you ever want to drag the depths of the shit-lake of humanity, just go to any article about the current Ferguson conflict that allows comments. Basically just racist conservative gun fetishists everywhere.

          • W.

            Oh man, that stuff is so messed up.

          • Cock of Steele

            The comments for these guys are just a bunch of NS dudes who like the band explicitly because they sing about hating christians, jews, blacks, etc.

          • Metaphysical Anus

            I watched a video about the gathering of the juggalos. There was one Swedish guy in the comment section that was almost xenophobic. He didn’t consider imigrants to be Swedish, even if they have the nationality. He wanted to only keep Swedish blood in Sweden. Now this would be really detrimental over time. Naturally, a lot of other racists started coming to that thread.

          • JWG

            See also: stories about Rick Perry’s indictment. Especially those published in Texan news sources but not based in Austin.

            Yes, even that manages to go racist and/or gun-mad. They just start from “Commies” and run from there…

        • Howard Dean

          Yeah, definitely try to avoid the youtube comments for bands like GBK, Arghoslent, Burzum, Absurd, etc. It’s mostly ridiculous rubbish. Just press play and walk away.

  • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

    It’s a tricky question. On the one hand if I shied away from themes or creators that I find troubling or even outright repellent I wouldn’t enjoy quite a bit of literature and cinema that I do, but on the other I just don’t seem to have that ability with music, even if the music doesn’t actively reflect the views of the creators. I think a part of it is the immediacy, availability and cross cultural/cross temporal appeal of music, it gets to people in the real world in an evident manner. But other than that, and maybe my considerably greater knowledge of literature and cinema, I’m not really sure why.

    • W.

      I’m with you on that. I think music is a more direct outpouring of one’s beliefs than a lot of other forms of art.

      • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

        And the directness is limiting I think. I mean, I bet they exist somewhere but I can’t think of any bands making intricate, nuanced musical gems that are also racist screeds because the racism tends to overwhelm them.

  • Simon Phoenix

    Oh and for those who can’t separate the art from the artist, might I suggest House of Atreus?

    Most of the Arghoslent goodness, none of the racism.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=22Ij520gb20

    • Cock of Steele

      I’ll admit, Fogging the Cargo was pretty sick.

    • Howard Dean

      Nice rec! Really good shit!

  • Nordling Rites Ov Karhu

    I don’t like racists. But I liked these songs. Even if there are a lot of people who would call me an asshole I can’t think of a single reason anyone would call me a racist. I have and propably will continue to listen a few racistic( etc.) bands, for it has never really mattered to me what the guys are like as long as the music is good. Don’t know how I’ll feel about racist lyrics, but I’ll be giving these a few more spins to find out.

    • Metaphysical Anus

      Are there a lot of racists around there? I used to live in Oulu and met a lot of racists there.

      • Nordling Rites Ov Karhu

        Not really anymore, so many immigrants around. (There were a lot of racists amongst them) Used to be a lot more though. I learned to dislike them strongly early on, my old man being one.

        • Metaphysical Anus

          My father had some racist tendencies, but my grandfather was a straight racist.

          • Nordling Rites Ov Karhu

            Funny enough my grandpa didn’t ever seem to have any any racistic opinions least he never said anythong of the kind. I am grateful that most of my friends were not finns. I believe I am better this way.

          • Metaphysical Anus

            Having only finns as friends didn’t go well for me.

          • Not Vincent Bennett

            I didn’t have many friends from other countries. They were mostly born in America, with a few born in Albania and one born in Russia.

  • Metaphysical Anus

    My comment is going to be quite useless, because this has been stated already. I can listen to a racist band if the lyrics do not promote it at all. Someone can make really great music with lyrics that have nothing to do with his personal beliefs. Discrediting him because of what he belives in outside his music is idiotic. Darwin helped evolution, but he was also a racist. Does this make his contribution to science void? No.

    • Yes, but as described elsewhere here, some beliefs are instilled based on society in that era. It’s still shitty, but more understandable. Edit: I didn’t read your post well enough, you were referring to art that doesn’t promote the artist’s shitty beliefs.

    • Not Vincent Bennett

      I agree with this statement so much. I would say why I agree with it, but I have to head to work. Gotta be there by 9 AM. I will be back on here when I get there. One more thing though, Melanie’s death was ruled a suicide. That makes the comments Gene said about suicide and depression even more unforgivable because she was a big Kiss fan. She left a note on her desk that was basically a note for me saying she was sorry about having to do what she did and a ton of other stuff. She also left me all her Kiss stuff, of which she had a ton of it.

  • Nordling Rites Ov Karhu

    Also I don’t have too much trouble listening to bands that appear say racist or nazi if I know it is purely for shock value and not the personal belief of any of the members. There is little difference between this and being satanic/anti-religious for the sake of shock value. At least thats is how I see it

  • Not Vincent Bennett

    The new Emptiness album rips. I’m listening to it and I’m really enjoying it. Here’s a link to it on Youtube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sRmPbxk_I8

    • Metaphysical Anus

      Why have I never heard of them? This is fucking great!

      • Ye Olde King Cobra Malt Liquor

        It is great. I’m enjoying it almost as much as the new Behemoth album from this year.

        • Metaphysical Anus

          I really loved that one. I was kind of dissapointed with Evangelion, but The Satanist was a great record.

          • Not Vincent Bennett

            If you’re wondering I changed my name just to mess with whoever is the guy with the Razor Ramon themed username. I’m going to change it back when he drinks me.

        • Metaphysical Anus

          Wait, what? You changed man?

          • Ye Olde King Cobra Malt Liquor

            Yes. I am now a bottle of King Cobra malt liquor. I’m trying to find Scott Hall. He looks like he could need some of me and my friends such as a 24 pack of Miller Lite and a 12 pack of Natural ice. You can’t hide forever Scott. You know you want to drink us.

          • KJM

            WHERE’S THE MILLER HIGH LIFE?!!!

          • Not Vincent Bennett

            Never been a fan of High Life. I am a fan of some other types of beer owned by Miller such as Red Dog and Icehouse. It’s hard to find Icehouse near me but they have it at Walmart so I just buy it there. When I want something like Icehouse but can’t find it I just get Milwaukee’s Best Ice.

          • KJM

            I don’t drink but if I do, it’ll be Samuel Smith or Guinness or something of similar quality. I’m not Scott Hall.

          • Not Vincent Bennett

            I’m not Scott either but with what I make in a month I can only afford stuff like Milwaukee’s Best Ice and Natural Ice. I have been having an awful lot of Natural Ice lately because it was my ex girlfriend’s favorite beer and she died on Monday. It’s really sad because we still loved each other but now we can never be together again.

  • Beunhaas

    I’m reading the interview you posted right now and i’m surprised at how smart he comes across. on one hand he makes great music (I’m assuming, I haven’t listened to it yet) and seems intelligent enough, but on the other hand still is a really racist guy . He’s not just crazy like Varg, for example.

  • I don’t know (or care) about these bands’ stupid bigoted beliefs but I can honestly say the music sounds incredible. Until now I was pretty unfamiliar with them.

    I personally don’t take anybody’s crap too seriously until they start trying to cram it down my throat.

    • Howard Dean

      Thanks JAG!

  • Mon*Star

    Sweet ass bands. Thanks, Howard!

    [ii] Also Absu, as we discussed in the comments of another recent post.

    • Mon*Star

      Just got to the part about the racism… guess I’ll use this as a learning experience and actually finish the articles before commenting. Liked the music but this will be the extent of my listening to them.

      • Occams_Razor_Ramon

        Is this where Ashton Kutcher comes out and yells Punk’D?

  • Nordling Rites Ov Karhu

    Just read the quote about no sub-Saharan empires. So they’re also dim-witted not only ignorant ( there were empires around those parts) Huohh! I hate it when good bands are such shitty people/have this kind of lyrics

  • Scrimm

    I like this video. nothing to do with music but it fits this topic well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku33Th6aygw

    • Gurp

      OHHH SNAP

    • Jimmy Calhoun

      Love that video! Ironically, I was listening to Absurd and Arghoslent right beforehand…

  • Kazz

    I’ve never checked out GBK but I have heard a handful of Arghoslent songs. I agree that, musically, they’re pretty great. Although I’ve stumbled across a few bands that have a similar sound without the racist lyrics, it’s a sound that differentiates itself from the pack. But there are a lot of other excellent bands in the world that aren’t comprised of despicable people, so I give my attention and dollars to them. I wouldn’t lecture or look down on anybody who listens to these or other racist bands despite not agreeing with the content, but I choose to just move on to the next one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Ij520gb20

  • SMOHLG

    @disqus_SuTZzQbXC5:disqus Hatred, racism, the people/groups that spout it, and it’s violent history is very interesting to me. I would never put a penny in the pockets of these bands, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t worth paying attention to their music and their message. The music is already out there and available and it spurs on very interesting conversation and debate! Some people seem unable to listen because the lyrical themes (especially combined with the bands known ideology) make them uncomfortable, but just listening and observing their music does not support their principle and it does not make you guilty by association. The Neo-nazi movement and racism is very much alive and pretending it doesn’t exist isn’t going to solve anything. I would rather pay attention and be aware. I believe @joshuathackston:disqus said something similar to this.

    • Scrimm

      Yes and well said.

  • KJM

    Even if this band were singing about Chocolate Chip Peanut Butter ice
    cream, I wouldn’t care because I don’t like the music. That’s hardly an
    odd thing because I don’t care for about 99.9% of what’s called metal these days.

    However people who condemn bands like this because of their lyrics have a lot more to go on than Christians who are butthurt over Slayer or any “Satanic” Metal band. Abrahamic Religion is a fat load of sexist, racist, homophobic horseshit that people CHOOSE to buy into for whatever reason. People of another Race, Gender, or Sexual Orientation don’t get that choice.

    • Scrimm

      Not everyone is like that though.

      • KJM

        That’s why I judge people on an individual basis but even without my views on the subject, Religion is a choice people make, Race/Gender/Orientation isn’t. Comparing the discrimination between the two doesn’t work.

        • Scrimm

          Fair enough.

    • Not Vincent Bennett

      I liked the songs by Grand Belial’s Key. They were good, even though a tad offensive to me as a Catholic. I’m currently downloading a band I haven’t heard in a while, the band being KMFDM. My first date with my ex girlfriend whose wake I just got back from was a show by Ministry and then a show of KMFDM nine days later. The dates were October 21 and October 30 2004 at The Chance. They both put on a good show when I saw them.

  • Justin von Grav

    that GBK song reminds me of Lunar Strain

  • Max

    The only proviso I have for giving Nazi stuff a chance is that the music absolutely has to be good – which is really the only legitimate reason to listen to anything, really.

    Having heard Arghoslent before, I’ll say it has merit although it’s not quite my cup of tea anyway. This is also the reason why I eventually sold my copy of Blood Axis’s The Gospel of Inhumanity album: Michael Moynihan’s a great author and for a fascist, I always thought his views were fairly well-considered when reading interviews with him. But the music was pretty lame for most of that record. There were one or two tracks that might have made good intros to a black metal album, but beyond that, nothing.

    As far as racism in metal goes, the only thing that really troubles me – rather than the stance of certain bands – is what goes on at ground level; ie: at shows, etc. A band spouting racist views in an interview is practically a useful warning sign for those who don’t want to support such music, particularly if they themselves are on the receiving end ethnically. It’s clearly flagged.

    By contrast, it’s when I hear about a non-white person going to a Napalm Death gig and finding the venue riddled with Nazi skins that a little part inside of me dies. Metal doesn’t have to apologize for being predominantly white, but it’s always nice when non-white people discover the music and find they enjoy it. To then potentially get turned off the music because of their experiences in the scene really sucks, I think. Especially since it’s not like Nazi skins haven’t got their own subset of bands and their own scene to patronize. Do they REALLY need to attend a Napalm Death show?

    • W.

      That’s ironic too because Barney hates Nazis.

      • Max

        Yeah, that’s exactly my point. I mean, there’s plenty of apolitical bands out there, or bands where the political stance might be a little ambiguous because of imagery and themes employed, like Slayer or Morbid Angel. But Napalm Death? They were always openly leftist. And yet I always read about that happening on ND’s American tours.

        The only reasons Nazi skinheads could possibly have for attending a show like that would be deliberate provocation or gaping ignorance. But you never seem to get left-wing thugs (or, say, black gangsters) attending Oi! or NSBM shows.

        That’s why I can’t really respect fascists, even if I respect everybody’s right to an opinion. They’re always complaining about the effects of democratic or left-wing culture on the “white race”. But take that culture away and it doesn’t seem like they have much culture of their own to indulge in. As a white, I’ll be damned if I’m gonna listen to Wagner and country music for the rest of my life.

  • Gurp

    I dunno, Arghoslent just sounds like your typical melodic death metal band to me.

  • FeelTheDarkness
    • Not Vincent Bennett

      This is one of my favorite songs and probably the only good thing about CM Punk.

      • KJM

        Seeing them again in November(hopefully).

        The success of CM Punk paved the way for wrestlers like Daniel Bryan, Dean Ambrose, and (very soon I hope) Sami Zayn to come up. That’s another good thing about him.

        • Not Vincent Bennett

          I can’t wait for Sami Zayn to show up in WWE. Him and Kevin Steen are going to hopefully do wonders in the WWE.

          • KJM

            I really hope they let Kevin keep his name but probably not. He has the potential to give Pipebomb level promos, never mind that him and Sami could have a good match in their sleep at this point since they’ve done it so many times.

          • Not Vincent Bennett

            I was watching an old Clash of the Champions earlier today on the Network and it interested me, so I looked for other WCW matches that I may have missed. As I did a search on Youtube for matches I saw this match. I had no clue that it had ever happened and I had not known that any of the people from the Rock and Roll Express were in WCW this late in time. The match was in February 2000 on WCW Saturday Night and it was between Jim Duggan and Robert Gibson for the TV title right before they retired it in April of that year. Here’s a link to where I found it on Youtube.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPtovSDuaTg

  • BoogerFlicker

    I can see where you’re coming from. You kinda come across that problem when you listen to any of the earlier second wave of black metal bands (violence, racism, etc.) but can’t help if it gets your foot tapping. Apparently Inquisition is racist (?) but I still zone out to Ominous Doctrines of the Perpetual Mystical Macrocosm.

  • Hayden Clifford

    Hey guys I am 15 years old and I need some advice. I really want to go see a Slayer concert in November but my dad doesn’t want me to because he thinks that a lot of white supremacists like Slayer and will be at the concert. Any advice?

    • Not Vincent Bennett

      Advice for you, tell your dad that a Slayer concert is not a place that white supremacists go. Considering Tom Araya is a devout Christian, there is no reason for white supremacists to see them. I’ve never seen them though they did come near me in 2007 with the lineup of Kerry, Tom, Jeff when he was alive and Dave when he was still in the band. I wish I would have gone. I regret not going and that was 7 years ago when I was 20.

      • Hayden Clifford

        Cool thanks for the advice

        • I saw Slayer play a festival here in Kansas a while back. I didn’t see any obvious white supremacists, just lots of people of all ages having a good time. They’re a great live band.

          • Not Vincent Bennett

            I would see Slayer as they’re going to Albany but I don’t want to see Slayer without Jeff or Dave. I like Bostaph and Gary Holt and all but it’s not the same without Jeff and Dave.

          • Bert Banana

            Maybe the white supremacists finally realized that Tim is Chilean and Dave is Cuban

        • Not Vincent Bennett

          I think you should go. I wanted to go and so did my late ex girlfriend, but alas we did not. I regret not going and I wish I would have.

      • KJM

        2007 was the last time I saw Slayer with the full lineup. In 2012 I saw them minus Jeff.

        • Not Vincent Bennett

          I almost went to see them, but I didn’t get the tickets in time. I was lucky enough to see the inaugural Gigantour at the Civic Center, which was right near the Chance. I’ve also been lucky enough to see Anthrax, WASP on a package tour with quite a few other bands and My Chemical Romance there. I didn’t want to see MCR but my girlfriend at the time did so I went with her.

    • KJM

      Just present your case with evidence to support it(i.e. interviews with band members). If your father is a reasonable man, he’ll see that you’re right. Let us know how it goes.

  • Xander Crews

    Duuude, BEST fuckin’ article on this site so far…

    • Howard Dean

      Thanks man!

  • Mr.CustodialArts

    Wasn’t “White Male Privilege” a contender to be the moniker of this here bloggadee-blog bloggy thingy?

  • Norfair Legend

    Man…Arghoslent make some amazing tunes, been one of my fav’s for a long-ass time. This is a great article as I know how it feels, they are seriously some of the most talented dudes writing some of the craziest riffs but…I don’t want to tell anyone I listen to them. I can say that they are true to their convictions in song and in interviews (look some up, crazy stuff) but those are not my personal convictions.

    Then again when I listen to N.W.A or old Ice-T , my convictions are not to rob, steal or “fuck the police.” I guess you just have to take it with a grain of salt but keep in mind the world around you.

  • you guys are knocking these articles the fuck out of the park!

  • sweetooth0

    I know Arghoslent is straight up racist, but I own a couple GBK albums and while I know there’s some strong anti Christian and anti Jewish statements I didn’t get a racist vibe as much as an anti-religious one.

    Why is it OK to bash Christianity in metal but not Judaism?

    For the record, I love both bands, will listen to stuff like Angry Aryans and then put on Public Enemy right afterward, listen to vegan punk/metal while eating a medium rare steak, am not racist, and really don’t take issue with anyone’s religion as long as they aren’t pushing it on me.

  • Maurice

    Great read!

  • Mike

    I somehow got here from a Dead Congregation interview and I don’t even know what is going on right now. Whoa.