Distributing NSBM? I’m NAZI-ing a Problem

6297
250
Share:
Brenocide is a metal musician and top-tier S-Rank elite centrist whose status as consistently above-it-all allows him to objectively hear out and logically consider every side in any major political or politically charged heavy metal debate.

 

First and foremost I just wanted to tell you that unequivocally, unconditionally with 100% objectivity: NSBM, white supremacy, racism, and all things “alt-right” are bad, wrong, totally fucking stupid and not worth an iota of caring or thought from anyone. I will remind you I feel this way seven or eight times before you are finished reading, almost as if I don’t quite believe it myself. Now that I’ve convinced you that I’m a good person worth hearing out and that I think NSBM fans, labels and artists are the worst, here’s a multi-thousand word, community college level essay on why we should give them exactly everything they want.

I can hear you exiting your browser now. “Fuck this guy” you brashly declare as you shun me and my opinion forever before allowing yourself the gift of genuine enlightenment. I still love and respect you friend, may you have a long fulfilling life and I wish you all the best in your journey ahead. I wish you this because I am a good person like you and I am not racist.

Are they gone? Good. For those of you that have made it this far, congratulations. You have proven yourselves truly worthy of ascending to the next level of widely awoken understanding. You are the one true master race of internet centrist. You are nothing like the limp-dicked, sand-headed, fairy heart losers who have catastrophically failed on their weak-ankled journey towards the one infallible truth I can offer them by ceasing to continue reading 23 paragraphs of me tripping all over my own point.

I said “sand-headed” because they have their heads in the sand, ok? Like denial? I am not a racist.

Recently Metal Sucks posted an open-letter by an anonymous group threatening to boycott Headbanger’s Ball if they don’t stop showcasing NSBM music or music that’s produced by known racists. I don’t know about you guys, but I’m pretty certain Hell’s Bells has been off the air for a while now, so I don’t get the point. I don’t have cable anymore so I’m not positive, but not even a level 100 bromancer like Jamie Jasta could save that train from getting itself wrecked. I do however, commend the anonymous group that penned the letter for pointing out that American Head Charge doesn’t always promote racist music and still has its merit. I find this to be true of the entire metal scene as a universally established agreement to disagree. I met Jamie Jasta before and the other dudes from Hell Patrol and they’ve never been anything but nice to me. Me being a white guy probably doesn’t have anything to do with that.

Now, you will need to maintain your patience with me. I’ve heard from a number of sources that anyone who has to hear me out on anything requires a lot of it. Heavy metal is historically a melting pot of diversity and ideas. Something like rap music is probably not, so this is what makes metal special. We need everyone involved and allowed in heavy metal music; especially the people whose complete reason for being is telling everyone exactly the opposite. How can we truly call ourselves an all-inclusive genre when we go out of our way to exclude people whose life mission is to ensure this is NOT an all-inclusive genre? Sounds pretty hypocritical if you ask me, guys.

Look, metal has all sortsa folks doing all sortsa strokes and you’re gonna have to deal. Some of us drink Bud, some of us drink Miller. Some of us like black metal, some of us like death metal. Some of us are married with kids and some of us are gearing up wistfully for full blown race war. You don’t have to like it, you just have to allow yourselves to disagree over some things. Regardless of their beliefs, these people paid the same price of admission you did, and they have just as much right to be there hate-moshing on people of color in the crowd as you do. How hard is it to coexist over our mutual love of savage riffs? If you’re a minority getting bullied at a venue you paid money to be at, just ignore it. That’s what my mom told me about bullies and mommy always knew best.

Mommy also told me that no one likes a tattletale. If you publicly shame an organization for endorsing racists, what does that make you? A no good, nosy, negative Nancy! Mind your own beeswax, blabbermouth! If little Robby or Ronny or Kristy wants to use music as a platform to recruit hatemongers in strong enough numbers that their right to vote and run for office ensures a legal landscape in our nation that panders to bigotry, and you don’t like it, just take your ball and go home!

Let me put this into perspective for you. Some people want every man woman and child of any given marginalized group erased from existence without exception. I don’t understand that and I never will. Some people think the band Finntroll is a good band! I definitely don’t understand that sentiment either. So I guess where I’m seriously fucking confused is how disagreeing over either of those things could possibly be any different? So what do you suggest Social Justice Warriors? That I punch every Finntroll fan in the face because I don’t agree with them? Yeah, ok, sounds reasonable. Punching people is the tactic of racists, and I am not a racist.

If a young, white, Christian man who was raised Christian in a majorly Christian nation and was surrounded by Christianity his whole life becomes an ex-Christian and makes anti-Christian music; somehow, in SOME WAY that gets a free pass! But if the same white Christian majority nation born guy wants to perpetuate stereotypes and advocate the oppression of Muslims in his country, all of the sudden it sends everybody in a tizzy. Religion is religion you gits, haha duh!

Metal music by definition is provocative. Its imagery is meant to shock and offend. It is extreme music for extreme people. It only makes sense that everyone in the genre should be an extremely dumb person too. And it’s not like Nazi imagery hasn’t been played around with before by bands that everyone loves unconditionally now and forever. Slayer proudly used Third Reich symbolism on all of my favorite t-shirts and accessories. How can we possibly have a legitimate conversation over avoiding/banning this type of imagery and behavior when Slayer was and is Slayer? Whenever there is an opposite argument of any sort and my rebuttal is “SLAYER” then regardless of topic, I have soundly won the debate. Just like always. Guess I’m not really a racist apologist then. Try again, ANTIFA.

Here’s some food for thought: What is genuinely more fascist in the whole wide world than someone trying to dissuade their fellow man from being a full-blown heartland fascist? If you’re impeding on another person’s god-given rights to take away other’s rights, do you really even care about rights at all? Guess the ANTIFA becomes the ANTIANTIFA after all. You hypocritical super fascists protested – no— CENSORED two or three metal shows that the venue owner probably didn’t feel like the 30 or 40 tickets sold over was worth the trouble and canceled. Someone, anyone at all, please do your very best to try to explain to me; how that is in any way worse than the Holocaust? ANTIFA are nothing more than real-life Nazis committing acts of genocide against a narrow base of underground artistic expression.

Censoring metal music of any kind takes us all right down a very existent slippery slope. Yeah, maybe Graveland is getting a show shut down right now, but pretty soon, Guitar Center is going to go under and out of business due to what can only be attributed to ANTIFA-related boycotting. Once that happens, say goodbye to all music forever, chumpkins. Plus, if all we do is talk about all the bad metal out there, then people on the outside are going to think that all metal is bad! If we don’t show all the pop, indie, country, hip-hop and alt rock fans that metal is pure and good, they might not listen to it. That’s just not a reality I want to imagine…

I also think it’s important to remember that art and artist are separate from each other. Beethoven is infamous as being an enormous, mischievous canine whose zany hijinks —while ultimately proving friendly fun for the whole family — could’ve seriously hurt someone given the size and strength of his breed. Regardless, his music is universally revered even to this day! Rob Darken too — in his own sort of way– is really just a slobbering, mess-making, uncontrollable Saint Bernard, but that doesn’t make the music of Graveland any less (or more) enjoyable. So sorry to spoil the ending for you, but he’s part of the family, and we’re keeping him.

If I’ve said it once before, I’ll say it again: I’m not racist. Actually, the grand majority of metal artists and fans are open, friendly, radical dudes who accept everyone in the genre all of the time probably. There are so many cool, easy going fellas in the metal genre out there producing good, fun time, innocent metal music. Which makes it all the more confusing that I decide to listen to NSBM anyway like I don’t have endless other choices. Let’s be real here, sick riffs are sick riffs. I’m not gonna let something puny like my core moral values get in the way of appreciating some tasty tone. It’s not like you have to pay for music anymore anyway, so what’s the harm?

“But Brenocide!” I hear you quack like a predictable penguin atop your idiot iceberg. “It’s so easy for you to separate art from the artist because you’re a white man and none of this affects you!” You’re actually right about that. I just don’t actually care. I want to listen to it anyway and you can’t make me care. I’m gonna come back and try to edit this paragraph to make my underlying point sound a bit more nuanced and intelligent. For now I’m just gonna say I don’t give a shit so I can remember to come back to this and flesh out that exact sentiment a bit more before posting this. Boy, I hope I don’t forget to do that, that would be embarrassing. 

In conclusion, metal has always been about a confrontational defiance towards the mainstream norm. In that way, NSBM has just as much right to be a part of the metal genre as any other subgenre. The fact that you don’t like it just means that it’s working. Sure, white power groups are a specifically conservative movement that push to protect long-established cultural norms that systematically oppress marginalized groups to keep the members of the top at the top. And yes, these hate groups are essentially bootlicking billionaire errand boys who allowed themselves to be successfully distracted by the highest earning individuals at the top of this country who are ACTUALLY actively fucking them over; but instead opt to fight over the scraps at the bottom thrown to them under the table with their fellow lower middle-class countrymen over something as benign and totally fucking arbitrary as cultural background in the context of economic anxiety. But fuck, that’s just politics, baby.

Since most metal is combative towards the norm, being combative towards the norm in metal is now the norm. Therefore, since NSBM is being combative towards being combative towards the norm, they are being combative towards the norm by being supporters of the norm. Right? Right.

And hey, let’s be real. Most of these NSBM guys are mouth-breathing, acne-laden, near-sighted, basement dwelling, lip-touching, socially outcast ultra flabby losers who have never grazed a vagina in their entire pathetic lives save for the ones they plopped out of. When they’re not listening to or writing their nationalist trash, they spend their time cranking their yanks to all genres of hentai imaginable. So how about we just let these hopeless fucking dorks slink over their own jizz-encrusted frames in the darkness and let them have NSBM all to their lonely selves?

Oh, let me have it too. I think it’s pretty great:

 

– Brenocide \,,/

 

Did you dig this? Take a second to support Toilet ov Hell on Patreon!
  • Guacamole Jim

    Are vaginas typically to be grazed? Asking for a friend.

    • Depechemodeisgangsta

      tell your friend they’re supposed to be nibble, not grazed.

    • Howard Dean

      Grazing on vagina >>>

      Time for a box(ed) lunch.

      http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1360332/sack-lunch-yum-yum-yum-yum-o.gif

    • Dumpster Lung

      I guess grazing could be a euphemism for oral when there’s a decent amount of bush involved. Or it could become an Urban Dictionary sort of ultra-specific thing meaning just munchin’ on the pubes themselves. Either way.

      EDIT: I forgot a word

    • Is it not spelled “grazed by a bullet”? I actually don’t know if I made a typo here.

    • Janitor Jim Duggan

      I agree.

  • I wonder if other genres of music have National Socialist subgenres? Is there NSR&B? NSEDM? NSTwee? NSTripHop?

    • NSEDM kinda exists but they call it like “martial industrial” and it’s the lamest shit you’ve ever heard.

      • Dubby Fresh

        Akshually…

        Nihil Novie Sub Sole is tite. Laibach can eat a butt tho.

      • xengineofdeathx

        Nazis definitely love new wave and synth pop music. It’s a thing.

        • Yeah, Richard Spencer is on the record as a huge Depeche Mode fan. I appreciate that they went out of their way to call him a cunt.

          • Depechemodeisgangsta

            I mean, who isn’t a big fan of Depeche mode, but yeah good on the band for calling him out.

          • The Tetrachord of Archytas

            The first track on their record from this year could easily be called “Spencer is a Cunt”

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            Too vulgar. How about “Cencer is a Spunt”?

          • The Tetrachord of Archytas

            You seem like a man who enjoys his spoonerisms

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1sXeUHBHgk

        • Janitor Jim Duggan

          Look at Ace of Base. They were Nazis.

      • PostBlackenedWhaleGaze

        “martial industrial” , “fashwave”

        And I thought metal had ridiculous sub-genre names.

        • Howard Dean

          The craziest one I heard recently was Pelican, Belphegor, Ahab, and Deafheaven were going to team up and invent this new style called “Post-Blackened WhaleGaze.”

          • PostBlackenedWhaleGaze

            Actually, Ahab dropped out at the last minute because they wanted to play at a snail’s pace the entire time, so they got the Duplantier brothers from Gojira, hence the ‘whale’ tag staying.

          • Jake Ist Krieg

            I’m gonna be honest, that sounds fucking amazing.

        • Janitor Jim Duggan

          What about garbagecore? Thats what my musical project is.

      • FASHWAVE SOUNDS MORE WIMPY THAN MY FLOPPY TITS

    • IronLawnmower

      I’ve definitely heard of white power rap before.

      • GoatForest

        The irony is real.

      • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

        I’m sure some douchebag out there has tried it out of irony, but it is not an established genre like NSBM is

  • Dr. K

    Good content.

  • Sir Ukkometso The Based

    R A D I C A L C E N T R I S M

  • dan

    Is this satire?

    • Howard Dean

      No, I think it’s shatire.

      • Is this satire?

        • Howard Dean

          No, I think it’s shatire.

    • RepostedAvengedSevenfoldFan2

      ..are you being sarchastic?

      -alessandro santacroce, 3 months ago

    • GoatForest

      Yeppers.

  • Howard Dean

    I may have missed some important intervening step in the process somewhere, but I have no idea what is going on. Drugz?

  • slipjackthewanderer

    Well written but I disagree with several points that I don’t have time to get into. Ignore minorities getting bullied at a metal show? That sends a message that that behavior is acceptable. Did I miss something? I feel like this needs counterpoint article.

    • RJA

      He’s on one side, but pretending to be on the other side – making his case against the other side while simultaneously making fun of the side he’s one. I believe it’s supposed to be funny and a response to this maybe: https://www.decibelmagazine.com/2017/08/28/matt-harvey-cant-censor-nsbm-distribute/

      • Howard Dean

        I think it’s supposed to be funny in that smug “this is funny but actually totally serious but I’m hip with it and smart so I play it with excessive mock outrage from the opposing viewpoint with a ridiculous edge *high five* ” type of way.

        • Can you write something for the site, please? I’m feeling like obessively douching up a comment section of yours up and down for hours so we can switch things up for once.

          • Howard Dean

            If I do write something, you are certainly more than welcome to douche it up–especially if I write something especially douchey.

            I’m kinda shocked you are thin-skinned about this. You just wrote something completely over-the-top and people responded to it in many different ways. Was that not what you were going for by writing this over-the-top article? The reaction?

          • I think it’s pretty obvious that this page is community-driven and reader and contributor interaction is what sets us apart. You’re on here every day, every post saying whatever you want and we all know you. You’re not “people”, you’re that same guy among all the same guys. This isn’t Metal Sucks. You’re not just shouting into the void with the safety net of an author not ever clapping back at you. All I’m doing is gently reminding you in terms of your shit talk in the room that “hey, I’m standing right here.” It would be thin-skinned not to. If you’re not down with the precedent of the writer giving you back grief, don’t give it.

          • Howard Dean

            I’m perfectly fine with the writer giving me back grief; I’ve never said or alluded to otherwise. It happens all the time on the ToH, and that’s why I like the community. I’m quite fond of back-and-forth discussions with the writer of an article. I actually dislike shouting into the void with no response, and much prefer making comments on articles where the author might respond. That’s why I do it all the time.

            The reason I made the comment about the article being “smug, etc” is because I feel that way about articles like this–I don’t like them and often feel like they are made for the sole purpose of being smug, snarky, or slapping one’s own back. I don’t like it, but that’s fine. I’m just one dude. You (and many other writers) obviously do like these articles. That’s fine. You write the article. I respond with criticisms. You respond with why my criticisms are unjust/why you think I’m a douchebag. I’m perfectly fine with that cycle, and much prefer it to the “HEY AXL n VINCE u guyz are fuckerzz lol” type of shit.

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            It’s not called “douching up the comment section”, it’s called “sodomizing the weak”

          • He wrote something for the site once. In which he bragged about his magical ability to listen to GBK and Arghoslhelehnt and NOT BE RACIST. It was awful.

          • Howard Dean

            Yeah, it could’ve used some editing, and maybe a bit more condescension. Then it would’ve been perfect.

            If I remember correctly, I think it was a fairly well received article that generated a lot of discussion. Totally awful. 😉

        • Dumpster Lung

          Isn’t that more fun/entertaining than just being really dry and direct about it? Also, it’s a direct response to the Exhumed guy’s article over at Decibel (was it Decibel? I think that’s right), so the mockery aspect makes extra sense in that context.

          I think being phrased this way actually does help drive some of the points home in a way that just repeating what everyone else on this side of the issue says doesn’t.

          Obviously something like this will be more divisive because it’s kinda snarky, but I liked it.

          • Howard Dean

            I didn’t realize there was all of this back and forth controversy with Hells Headbangers and Metalsucks and that guy from Decibel, so this was completely lost on me at first (though by the tone I figured it was a snarky/ironic response to something that had happened). I just generally dislike things written like this. Personal preference. They always rub me the wrong way, even if I agree with the point that is trying to be made (if there is a point).

        • RJA

          Right? I’ve always found being completely condescending to people helps them re analyze their thinking.

    • YOU GOT GOT

      • slipjackthewanderer

        Dammit. Y’all are just too woke for me.

  • Depechemodeisgangsta

    Will there ever be a time in “Metal Music” without having Racism or hate attached to it?
    Because IMO i don’t think so, at least not soon, in the past 10 years whenever i go to a show, you still see either skinheads or people with Racist tattoos.

    • Howard Dean

      I don’t go to shows often, but I’ve honestly never seen a skinhead or a racist tattoo at a concert. Not trying to say it doesn’t happen at all (’cause I certainly know it does), but what types of shows are these? I saw Bolzer last week and saw nary a skinhead or racist tattoo/patch. With all of the hooplah around that band recently, I genuinely expected see more “extreme” people. Instead it was just a bunch of metal people and randoms, like usual.

      • Depechemodeisgangsta

        I live in South Florida, a lot of people don’t know but there are a lot of hate groups in the state, so is not surprising to see a couple at the shows, also i come from an Hispanic background, so when i go shows with my friends a little more north, we stand out more since there a not a lot of Latinos at shows.
        That is one of the reasons that on past couple of years i have stayed away from going to metal concerts specially if the shows are couple of hours north.
        1st time with my friends that we went to see Slayer around 2005/06 there were a bunch of Skinheads, some guy even told us, YOU’RE IN THE WRONG PLACE BOY, then another time we went to Tampa and my friend said we needed to leave early, cause a guy wouldn’t stop following us whenever we went, also on another Slayer show, i went ahead of my friend and went to our seats, and the guy behind me was talking a lot of dumb shit (but to be fair a lot of people do that) but then my friend came and he is also Hispanic but he looks White and he had his Navy shirt from his service on Iraq, then the guy behind us, told him thanks for his service and at least stay quiet the rest of the show.

        https://www.local10.com/news/florida/map-details-where-florida-hate-groups-are-in-2017

        • Carlos Parlo

          AH, meant to ask you where you were from in my previous response up above. Sorry to hear you’ve experienced that.

        • Howard Dean

          Yeah, definitely must be regional differences. Plus a lot of diehard Slayer fans are notorious douchebags.

          • Depechemodeisgangsta

            Yea i love Slayer, but i know that racist comes attached to it, just had to deal with it.

          • PostBlackenedWhaleGaze

            Some of the worst fans I’ve encountered: Pantera, Slayer, Rush, and Tool. I like all these bands, but their fans are garbage and don’t think any other music exists outside of their respective fandom.

          • GoatForest

            Strangely, I saw Superjoint several months before Anslemo had his whole “white power!” brwakdown. Anyway, Anselmo actually called out some kid for wearing a rebel flag on his vest. Which was strange, but cool. Then, he pulled that shit at Dimebash, so…

          • PostBlackenedWhaleGaze

            Personally, I don’t believe he’s racist. He just can just be an idiot who opens his mouth without thinking sometimes. But yeah, that shit was not cool.

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            Anselmo isn’t nearly as bad as some make him out to be.

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            The whole “Anselmo is racist” thing happened because he had one inebriated lapse of judgement and a bunch of unethical clickbait-loving starved-for-revenue websites snowballed it into a whole controversy that they gleefully exploited for clicks

          • GoatForest

            My thoughts as well.

        • PostBlackenedWhaleGaze

          Sorry to hear that man, really sucks. I lived in South Florida for a little while, and the few shows I went to actually had a seemingly majority Hispanic crowd (i’m white), so I actually stood out for once haha. But I’m from a progressive bubble in the Deep South, amidst a sea of red (guess where), and the shows here are always diverse and everyone is pretty inclusive. I know it’s not like that everywhere, so I count myself pretty lucky. But there’s no tolerance for bigots. I once saw this band Radke (All African-American 3 piece, they played punk/metal in the style of Danzig, really good actually, bought a shirt) opening for someone I can’t remember, and some POS threw a fucking giant knife on-stage, then walked out. He came in later in the show to be a tough guy in the pit. It was so satisfying watching him get knocked the fuck out by some huge dude wearing a Suffocation shirt, and then the bouncer threw him out for being belligerent. Justice served.

          • Depechemodeisgangsta

            Yes specially if a small venue in Miami, if you’re White you stand out lol, for me shows are hit and miss, sometimes i have great time, sometimes you have to deal with shitty people.
            And there is always that stupid person, who can’t behave and is just an asshole, and is always nice to see when the “Metal Community” puts that asshole in his place, either by getting KO or kick out.

        • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

          Hating on Hispanics at a metal show is like the dumbest shit ever. I mean, hating on ANYONE at a metal show is the dumbest shit ever – after all, you all came to watch the same band because you all presumably enjoy the music the band creates so you already have that much in common – but Hispanics are just as much of a significant part of the “metal audience” as whites are.

          • Depechemodeisgangsta

            Agreed, Latino/Hispanic love their metal music no matter what, and for the most part are very good die hard fans, but just like everywhere in the world, sometimes you just run into assholes.

      • Lord of Bork

        FWIW, there were a shitload of white power tattoos at Metallica’s Denver gig back in May. Only time I’ve noticed it at a show before.

        • Howard Dean

          I’m thinking that must be because they are such a huge draw/pull a huge amount of fans from a giant spectrum (15,000+ people at a gig from all different backgrounds). Metallica are accessible and hugely popular. I honestly don’t think the majority of “white power” people are into underground metal (so you probably would see more at a concert like Metallica or AC/DC).

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            If anything, most “white power” douchebags seem to be into the dumbest stuff ever. Whenever I think of “white power” and “heavy rock” in the same sentence, I think of = Godsmack (and assorted bands).
            That whole “NSBM” schtick more makes me think of a bunch of insecure basement dwelling nerds trying to be edgy instead of white thrash jocks whose main life achievement is trying to become a shot caller for the Aryan Brotherhood.

          • sweetooth0

            The only shows I’ve ever been too with white power knuckleheads were punk rock shows. Hilariously one of them was Unrest Fest in Edmonton which was pretty much 100% leftist crust punk bands, so not too sure why they’d wanna go there other than to end up thrown out an hour into the fest (which is what happened). Up here in Saskatchewan our metal shows are a healthy mix of guys and girls, Whites, Native and Metis people, a small number of middle eastern people, some people from India and Filipinos (who have quite a large community in the city). Everyone gets along, and I can’t think of a single racially motivated incident I have ever witnessed at any show. In fact the only shows where I do see violence are always Rap/Hip Hop, Country, and oddly enough the most violence we have seen in the city at any event has been Reggae nights, which have now almost all been shut down because they literally devolved into the whole venue being destroyed. One time, at a New Years event, the promoter had different rooms for different genres and put rap/hip hop right next to country. That did not go well.

          • Ted Nü-Djent ™

            I would probably get violent if I had to listen to reggae all night.

          • schmaltzo

            metallica or AC/DC concert?? You are an idiot

          • Howard Dean

            The fuck are you on about, retard?

          • schmaltzo

            there’s no nazis at ac/dc concerts you fucking jackass.

          • schmaltzo

            you spout total bullshit mindlessly

          • Howard Dean

            What is mindless bullshit? Using basic fucking probability and statistics to deduce that there are very likely more white power/racist people in the world (nominally, not as a percentage of total fanbase) who are fans of AC/DC or Metallica than the NSBM that everyone is fired up about? That’s just demographics and trends applied to a huge fanbase, and nothing more. I could’ve used any massively popular band and arrived at the same conclusion: on a straight nominal basis, there are very likely many more “white power” or racist fans of bands like Nickelback, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Motley Crue, etc etc than there are fans of Grand Belial’s Key in the world. I’m not saying that Metallica or AC/DC are racist bands, you fucking mouth-breather.

            There are exponentially more fans of each band in the world than there are the typical NSBM that everyone is riled up about. My point was that it is stupid to think that there is some giant conspiracy of racists backing these bands who have 500 fans throughout the entire world when in actuality you are more likely to run into a “white power” or racist person at a Metallica concert with 20,000 people in attendance. That’s just fucking probability.

          • schmaltzo

            look at you with your brain diarrhea. you couldn’t stop spewing bullshit if someone had a gun pointed to your head. what you said is pure conjecture, clown. show me any piece of data at all that describes the favorites bands of white nationalists. you don’t have any, you haven’t seen any, you’re pulling it all out of your ass. you have no clue what you are talking about.

          • Howard Dean

            I forgot that you had hard, empirical data backing your point of view. On a nominal basis, exactly how many more “racist” fans of Dark Fury are there in the world than “racist” fans a random mega-huge “pop” band with hundreds of millions of fans ? Can you point me towards the database?

            I stated plain as day from the beginning that my argument was based on stats and probability. Obviously stats and prob aren’t “hard fact” in the same way as polling each person individually (i.e. 100% empirical). Almost any argument based on a data set of this magnitude has to be based on stats/probability theory, because it’s nearly impossible to do otherwise (without tracking down every person within the population and polling them; maybe you have done this and I just don’t know?).

          • Ted Nü-Djent ™

            You’ve given this dickhead waaaaay more attention than he deserves.

          • Howard Dean

            Haha, this comment section is a total shitshow.

          • schmaltzo

            how many white nationalists can dance on the head of a pin? ask howard dean, he knows the answer.

          • Howard Dean

            Nope, I can’t. And I never pretended that I could.

          • schmaltzo

            since you have so much statistical information at hand with which to wield your pronouncements, you stupid dickhead, why don’t you tell us all how many “white power” beatles fans there are? it’s ok, you don’t have to give an exact figure. a ballpark approximation will do.

          • Howard Dean

            Stop being an oblivious chode–you get the point I’m trying to make (or maybe you don’t, in which case we need to both give up): there are hundreds of millions (if not billions) of fans of The Beatles in the world. Nominally (on a purely gross basis, not as a percentage of fanbase), it is extremely likely that there are more “racist” fans of The Beatles than there are of your typical NSBM band who has somewhere around 500 fans. We could say the same thing with a different qualifier: there are likely more fans of The Beatles in the world who like tennis than there are members of the Cleveland, Ohio Tennis Club–not because The Beatles promote the playing of tennis, but because there are exponentially more fans of The Beatles than there are people who play tennis in Cleveland, Ohio.

          • schmaltzo

            Nope, you are totally wrong and not nearly as smart as you clearly think you are. Your statement implies that sheer volume can me used as a statistical multiplier to infer the presence of “white power” types – a term that, by the way, is really imprecise. So add sloppy generalization to the list of your crimes. Anyway if sheer volume was the stable predictor than you could probably argue the same about rap and hip hop music – i.e. it’s such a much larger audience, than OBVIOUSLY there’s statistically more “white power” people in the audience. bla bla bla give it up you’re wrong.

          • Howard Dean

            My “crimes”?! Ohh, now we’re getting serious!

            We can both agree that “white power” and “racist” are imprecise terms that are difficult to define. This makes these types of conversations tenuous at best–for both sides.

            Sheer volume can be used as a statistical multiplier in statistics when we are discussing entire populations, and not just samples. And I would argue that there are nominally more “racist” fans of rap/hip hop in the world than there are racist fans of a band like Der Sturmer or Ad Hominem, based solely on volume of fandom. I believe “racism” is relatively evenly distributed throughout the population (because there is little evidence to say that it’s not a normal distribution and that it sits more heavily within certain demographics). That’s why I would say that.

        • more beer

          I went to Cryptopsy at the Roxy that night and there was none of that shit.

          • Lord of Bork

            ‘Tallica was worth seeing once, but I won’t be paying $150 to miss two songs for a rain delay ever again. And I’ve never even once run into those pieces of shit at smaller venues, so maybe I should have gone to Cryptopsy and saved myself some cash.

          • more beer

            Cryptopsy killed it. A friend went to Metallica and lives about 5 minutes away from Mile High and didn’t get home until like 4 in the morning trying to get out of there. I never see those fucks at shows in Denver. I go to all of the venues here from Bar Bar to the Summit and everywhere in between.

          • Jake Ist Krieg

            Yeah, I’ve found the Denver metal scene to be a lot less white than what I’m used to–I just moved to CO from Mass a couple of years ago and I see way more POC at shows out here than I did there.

          • more beer

            We have a good scene here with a lot of good bands. Most of the people are pretty cool and welcome anyone. I know of one guy here who really isn’t welcome anywhere. But that has nothing to do with his race he is black. It is because he is a huge asshole, grabbing on ladies who don’t want him to touch them, he is the only person I know of permanently kicked out of Black Sky Brewery for being a dick to the staff.(you have to be a real asshole to get kicked out there for good) But he brought these things upon himself by being a douche bag. If you’re going to shows here you will run across me I am at most shows. Often times with Vladimir Putin who posts here as well.

          • Mosh Hoff

            Would you say the amount of shit was none…

            …so vile?

    • Carlos Parlo

      I’ve been to about 25 metal shows throughout the south over the past two years and haven’t seen a
      skinhead or an openly racist person at one of ’em. Sure it’s been
      primarily white folks but even then there’s a 10% mix or so of other
      demographics. The only openly racist metal fans I run into are online
      but that’s a whole other issue I know. Maiden was very diverse crowd, Cobalt and Slayer less so.

      • Depechemodeisgangsta

        You have to remember that Maiden are super popular in South America, so all Brazilians and Argentinians will always show up to their shows, and they are a worldwide kind of band.
        I might go to FT Lauderdale, Revolution or Culture Room and that’s about how far i go, or Churchills Pub since i can just take an Uber to it, that’s why lately i just go with my friends to like “Pop/rock concerts” to hang out with my friends and not having to worry about shit and just listen to some music and enjoy it.

    • more beer

      I don”t see any of this stuff at shows and I typically go to a couple of shows a week. We have a pretty diverse scene here. I have seen one fight at a show here and it was 2 white guys fighting each other. Also having spent a lot of time on the NYHC scene I can tell you there are whole lot of skinheads who aren’t Nazis. Yes there are Nazi skinheads out there, but a vast majority of them concentrated in little areas. They aren’t typically accepted at a lot of hardcore shows. I know you are in Florida and there are a lot of white trash rednecks there. So that is probably why you see more of that type of stuff then others see in other paces.

    • The Tetrachord of Archytas

      I don’t really experience that So Cal. But I suspect it’s because here everyone’s rich parents are racist and kids in the punk/hc/metal scenes want nothing to do with it.

  • Lord of Bork
  • I guess I am selfishly glad that I do not like many black metal bands, so the risk of listening to anything remotely NSBM is pretty low. Again, selfish, but comforting…. I think.

    GL

    • GoatForest

      I’m a black metal fanatic, and other than Burzum, I’ve honestly had no problem avoiding NSBM. Although, some bands certainly have questionable members… so, maybe I’m negating my own point.

      • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

        Even so, Burzum’s music has never been racist, even if them man making it is. Can’t really say they are NSBM

        • GoatForest

          Yeah, if his songs shared his ideology, I wouldn’t touch them with a ten foot pole.

  • Carlos Parlo

    I actually dug much of Harvey’s Decibel article. I’ve struggled with this issue a bit as I do buy his “slippery slope” argument in terms of metal realizing metal is extreme and offensive and to the mainstream Slayer, Cannibal Corpse, Watain etc. are as offensive as some crapfest lo-fi NSBM band. I’m a first-amendment absolutist who hates white supremacy so it’s a fine line. My main flaw with the Deci article is that just because a band has the right to make nazi music doesn’t mean a third party should be cool with profitting from and distributing said material. I do really like several HH acts (Midnight, Cultes des Ghoules in particular). But I left a full shopping cart the last time (many months ago) on their website when I saw Antichrist Kramer was the artist of the latest HH compilation album.

    • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

      That’s freedom at work right there. They have the right to sell nazi bullshit, you have the right to take your business elsewhere

      • more beer

        This all day everyday.

      • Carlos Parlo

        Oh totally. You have the freedom to make a buck however you want and I have the freedom to not spend my money wherever I choose not to. In the global community that gets kinda difficult in that if you don’t want to fund assholes you’re going to be hoarding most of your cash (unless you’re an asshole too, then…). I think HH has the right to sell whatever the hell they want to. I just admit to struggling with the issue but really, I think Harvey in the Decibel act hit most of the points I was halfway to anyway though this satire piece did poke several holes in it (I guess?). Fuck it.

      • KJM, Anla’Shok

        This is how I view it.

      • Dumpster Lung

        I agree with that, so it doesn’t greatly upset me or anything when a place carries a bit of everything, but if I owned a webstore or some kind of distro, I’d probably not carry certain things because I wouldn’t want to feel complicit in encouraging shitty people to keep spreading shitty things to other shitty people.

        It’s not something I’d boycott a business over, unless they business themselves had direct ties to white supremacy or something, but that’s the choice I’d make if I were in that position.

      • eloli

        Yup, couldn’t agree more, and I don’t get why some people equate boycotting with censorship.
        If a distro wants to carry ns/wp music, they have the right to.
        I also have the right not to buy from them if I find carrying ns/wp music objectionable.
        That’s why I’ll never get those who equate this boycott with censorship, or an attack on free speech.
        If I decide to boycott a distro for carrying ns/wp music, I also have the right to tell everyone I know about it and ask them to join me, but I must face the consequence from that action: not only I’ll be limiting my choice as a consumer, I will surely rub a lot of people who don’t see an issue in this the wrong way, but that’s how life rolls, you can’t have free speech without consequences.
        Also, I’ve never bought into the slippery slope argument when it comes to ns/wp metal compared to other genres with objectionable content, because there is a difference.
        Satanic, death, ultra violent, gore or any metal that talks about unpleasent things get a pass because let’s be honest here, they may offend, but don’t really affect the lives of people on any level.
        Christian metal (or any religiously affiliated metal that doesn’t openly call for killing non believers) gets a pass because its values are not antithetical to those within their cultural contexts.
        Most political metal I know get a pass because they don’t call for violence, like nsbm do, and when it comes to left leaning or anarchist metal, is most anti system tripe nobody takes seriously.
        And that’s the rub: ns/wp metal is not the only subgenre talking about unpleaseant things, but it is the only subgenre whose only reason for existing is shilling an ideology based on racial hatred, conscious genocide and the complete obliteration of democracy, freedom of speech and independent thought, an ideology associated to a political movement responsible for more than 40 millions of deaths during WWII, and whose current followers routinely have engaged and engage in extreme acts of violence and killings.
        There is a difference, and that’s why most metal listeners are willing to give CC a pass but unwilling to give it to GBK, because supporting the former is morally neutral at worst, while supporting the latter is morally questionable at best.

        • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

          I don’t really think we are equating censorship and boycott. Me personally, I’m just going by what the original letter to Hell’s Headbangers said. In it, whoever wrote it demanded that HHB stops selling nazi/racist music; that struck me as censorship and (ironically) fascism. Of course you can stop buying from a seller because you disagree with them on something, and you can tell people to join you on your cause, but of course you have to concede if someone tells you that they have no problem with the seller’s practices and will continue to give him business. To do otherwise is to force your ideologies on others and that is fucked up. If you start forcing others to think like you do, you will become the very thing you are fighting against

          The other thing I found disagreeable was the delivery of this so called “open letter”. Because to me it seems that all this attention towards nazi bands is creating a Streisand effect that is just giving them more popularity. There has always been people making racist music, but they have always been on the fringes, pandering to their tiny audience of racist idiots. Most music fans that found their ideology repugnant just steered away from them. But now all of a sudden they have been given the spotlight, which has made them more notorious than ever before. HHB has been in business for almost two decades (and NSBM has been a thing even longer than that); where was this so called “Anti-NSBM Working Group” back in 2002? or 2009? or 2013?

          I get what you are saying about the slippery slope argument, and I agree with you that nazism is a toxic ideology while gore, death and violence are just silly offensive drivel. But to many people, depicting violence and gore in music is as bad as depicting nazism. If you get your way and get nazi music eliminated, someone will also come in and eliminate violent music because they think is dangerous; and all of a sudden, no more Cannibal Corpse, Autopsy or Slayer for anyone. Also, I like to point out that just like a well adjusted individual won’t become a murderer if he hears death metal, I also find it hard to believe that he will become a nazi if he listens to NSBM. Sure there will be maladjusted people who will find the ideology appealing, but in that case the music will be the catalyst, not the cause. Just like maladjusted people have listened to death or thrash and have gone on to kill someone (and let’s face it, there have been cases). So of course there would be no slippery slope if we all agreed on what’s right and wrong, but alas that is not the case

  • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

    “It’s so easy for you to separate art from the artist because you’re a white man and none of this affects you!”

    I’m a Mexican living in the United States. You know, those that Donald Trump say that are criminals and rapists and are ruining the economy (even though, unlike Mr Trump, I pay taxes, don’t profit from lower economic classes, and politely ask women if its okay to grab them by the pussy before doing so). Anyway, I’m not a white American, and I have absolutely no trouble separating the art from the artist. If I can do it so can you, kids

    • GoatForest

      Sure, but if a band is spouting bigoted lyrics, I’m out. Fuck those scabies infested assholes.

      • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

        To be honest, I have never have that problem. Most bands with outspokenly racist content I’ve heard are terrible

        • GoatForest

          Yep.

        • more beer

          Bands being terrible makes it really easy to not listen to them.

          • GoatForest

            That’s the number one thing crippling NSBM. They fucking suck.

          • lol

          • more beer

            Well that’s a good thing, no one is going to hear their message if they suck.

          • GoatForest

            I love it when a plan fails to come together.

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            That’s why I think all this boycott/censorship bullshit is counterproductive. It gives crappy nazi and racist bands attention they would have never gotten based on musical merits alone. Crap like Grand Belial’s Key are now more popular than they have ever been because of this

          • Dumpster Lung

            I think it’s counterproductive to make a huge commotion of not supporting a band sometimes, but just not carrying their shit without giving them the publicity in the first place is not a bad idea. Or even dropping them/their merch, but not dropping them with a huge announcement about it.

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            Yes and no. If you own a business and YOU are not okay with nazi bullshit and decide to not sell it, that’s okay, you are free to do so. But (as is the case with HHB) if you sell nazi shit (not because you believe or agree with it, but because there is a demand for it and you are just doing business) and someone on the outside pressures you to stop selling it, that is not okay and is not a good idea. It creates a dangerous precedent. Today, it is the nazi music. Tomorrow, feminists will want Cannibal Corpse to be dropped from stores because some of their songs are violent towards women. And after that you will have the Church going after Deicide because they don’t agree with their lyrics. Where does it stop?

          • Church?

            Metal Church would never do that.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTXn43Xi4-w

          • more beer

            People seem to forget the First Amendment isn’t about protecting popular speech, but rather about protecting unpopular speech. Sure people can speak out against said unpopular speech. I would much rather have speech I don’t agree with be protected, then be willing to lose my right to speak my mind. This is not something we can have both ways. It’s either all or none.

          • eloli

            People also seem to forget that the First Amendment doesn’t protect people speaking out unpopular opinions from the civil or social consequences it might bring, it just prevents the government from jailing people who have these unpopular opinions in most cases. Also, people forget that the First Amendment doesn’t really protect unpopular opinions during wartime or if they go against national interests or pose a threat to national security any time.

          • more beer

            I completely realize that. I also said it doesn’t mean people cant speak out against it.. It does protect people during wartime think the Vietnam War Protests. It doesn’t protect people from treason during wartime.

          • eloli

            Eh, actually, the government beat up thousands, jailed hundreds of anti war protestors during the Vietnam War, and there were a few deaths, even. The government wasn’t exactly sympathetic towards protestors, but they also didn’t want to get into too much trouble as the war became less and less popular, so they tried to keep violence between pro and anti war factions at a minimum, but they didn’t really have a legal obligation to protect anti war protectors, they were simply trying to avoid a PR shitstorm. Also, don’t forget the violence level southern states used while repressing civil rights protestors in the sixties, or how police turned a blind eye towards wp and kkk violence and lynchings towards them… the non enforcement of black people’s first amendments rights got so out of hand that both the fbi and the national guard had to intervene multiple times. That’s why personally, I find contemporary wp supporters cries about protestors being violent towards them and not respecting their right to free speech simply laughable, they have always been the ones not respecting the right to free speech, and the blood’s always been in their hands.

          • more beer

            Vietnam protesters were not arrested for their speech for the most part they were arrested for things like disturbing the peace. You are going back 50 or 60 years with a lot of things. Things have changed a lot since then. We can not keep looking back at things, we need to move forward. If we ever want to progress. The world is a different place then it was even 20 years ago. Until we can do that things are going to get worse instead of better.

          • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

            One of my festival buddies is a pretty keen feminist, and the two bands she was most looking forward to a couple of years ago were Cannibal Corpse and Within Temptation.

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            I’m not saying that all feminists hate CC, but let’s face it, they are a pretty easy target for feminists

          • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

            True that. I mostly mentioned it ’cause its amusing. Personally Cannibal Corpse don’t seem misogynistic so much as kinda dumb, like when a little kid pushes a girl in the mud because he likes her. But I couldn’t say they’re not problematic.

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            The CC guys (particularly Webster and Corpsegrinder) are among the friendliest and nicest musicians I have ever met. It is obvious to us that are familiar with them that their lyrics are strictly tongue-in-cheek. But for an outsider reading the lyrics without that context, they might take them at face value

          • Generally I think it is counterproductive, but it is worth bringing to attention that there is such things going on. Which as long as you do not over blow the attention you are drawing to it, it seems to me, would be worth it. My 2 cents.

          • more beer

            Exactly, when people are are giving these people attention they are getting publicity. In some cases the best action is no action at all. Now through speaking out and boycotting or censoring something. People are actually helping their cause.

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            (but musically speaking GBK are damn good!)

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            I’m not a fan tbh

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            Together with Arghoslent they’re one of those bands that kinda make me hate myself for liking them. I think the vast majority of “NSBM” is not nearly exciting enough to give your time of the day to at best and complete gash at worst. Bands like Arghoslent, GBK, Graveland (debatable if music itself is actually “NSBM”), Nokturnal Mortum (also, debatable)…and a very few others are “shady” bands that at the same time managed to shape their own signature sound which has a lot of character. Black metal, death metal and hardcore punk have been combined before by lots of other bands of course, but few bands have managed to mold them so easily in a signature sound as GBK managed to do. They’re assholes, but compositionally speaking their music is superb.

          • Howard Dean

            Exactly this, Frank. This times a thousand.

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            I know I’m being the devil’s advocate here and part of me wishes I wouldn’t want to give them credit, but on the other hand I’m a credit-must-be-given-when-it’s-due kinda bloke. “Being a morally deplorable douchebag” does not necessarily mean “being a talentless hack”.

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            I honestly don’t know if I objectively think GBK are bad or my brain subconsciously predisposed me to not like them due to my rejection of racist beliefs. I believe that could be an entire new debate

          • FrankWhiteKingOfNY

            Well, “music = bad” is mostly just a subjective reaction to “this music doesn’t click with me”. I think Disturbed is a fucking terrible band – BUT “are” they terrible? I mean, thinking a band is bad, is purely subjective anyway so it’s pretty much possible that GBK’s music just doesn’t click with you. I think – again, subjective – anybody who loves a good riff and who likes a dose of atmosphere could find something to like in GBK’s music, because plain and simply, they’re masters at writing great riffs.
            That doesn’t mean I’m going to urge you or anybody else to check out their entire discography front to back in order to revise your opinion. It’s anybody’s good right to stay clear from music made by artists whose behavior they find questionable.

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            Yes, I’m glad bands like Skrewdriver were considerate enough to never excel musically. It makes rejecting their music much easier

          • GoatForest

            “We would have gotten away with it, if it weren’t for our crippling lack of talent!”

          • more beer

            It also helps that the main member has been dead for 25 years as well.

          • Max

            For me, on a personal level, there are much stickier issues to contend with than obvious dreck like Skrewdriver. Not listening to them is easy.

            Not listening to Mayhem is a lot harder. They’re one of my favourite bands of all time. Hellhammer is one of my favourite drummers of all time. But the guy is definitely a racist. Not a politically-active one, but one nonetheless.

            I’m not quite sure how it flies under the radar so much when NSBM-adjacent bands are getting called out all the time. But being a black metal fan and not thinking Mayhem are objectively important to the genre is like saying the Sex Pistols aren’t important to punk.

            Black metal is the genre that taught me that YOU HAVE TO separate the music from the artist. You just have to. Otherwise you’re missing out on too much good art. I mean, the pyramids were built on slave labour; they’re as problematic as a monument gets. But who the fuck is going to pull down the pyramids or say that tourists should boycott them?

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            To be honest, those old Norwegian black metal bands were always trying to be edgelords back in the day, and would always spout a lot of horrible disagreeable crap just to come off a dark and evil. Just like the “Norsk Arisk Black Metal” thing in Darkthrone’s Transilvanian Hunger sleeve, or Satyr from Satyricon complaining about black people moving into Norway in an issue of the Slayer fanzine. I doubt most of them are really racists, they were just young and trying to fit in in a scene that valued childish edginess. As far as Hellhammer, I don’t really follow the dude, so I can’t really say if he is racist or not. But I remember that interview from the Lords Of Chaos book, in which he says that non-white races are inferior, and he has said that he was misquoted by the authors to try to make what he said more scandalous (a claim I don’t find hard to believe)

          • eloli

            Look, I hate to say this, because I’ve read a lot of your posts in other forums, and I consider you a pretty sensible, intelligent guy, but your pyramids comment is so stupid and fundamentally wrong that I really need to comment on it.
            Nobody says anyone “should” boycott “the pyramids”, “confederate statues”, “nsbm”, or anything, for that matter.
            Boycotting is an individual choice, that’s usually a response towards something that somedy feels that’s morally wrong.
            Boycotting gets usually lumped with censorship, but they’re not the same thing, and I’m gonna quote a previous poster, who’s much more eloquent than me on this one:

            “As a point of clarification, I think it’s also worth mentioning that people are confusing the terms boycott and censorship. Threatening to not support a band, label or concert venue is a boycott, and exerts economic pressure via the free market.
            Censorship is when someone is prevented from expressing something, ie, bands are arrested, interrogated, their houses raided and all their material destroyed by police or some other government authority.”

            Personally, I boycott any band who I find morally repugnant.
            I don’t buy their music, merchandise and don’t attend their gigs.
            I don’t expect everybody to think, or do as I do, but I kind of angry when someone implies that there’s anything morally wrong with boycotting anything, or equating it to censorship.

            I grew up, and got into metal during the 80’s satanic panics.
            At that time, I lived in Costa Rica, a very Catholic country, and there were some religious groups calling for boycotting rock and heavy metal, others were calling for outright censorship.
            Now, to people brought up during the 00s culture wars, there may be no difference, but trust me, there is, and it’s huge.
            I went to a Catholic private school, most of my teachers were Franciscan Friars. My biology teacher was actually a priest, and he was the one who taught me evolutionary theory. Now, to people from the US, this may sound a little strange, but for Catholics worldwide, that’s a non issue: the official Vatican position is that evolution doesn’t contradict the belief that god created the universe, so in fact, most Catholic schools have no problem teaching evolution, they simply don’t teach creationism, because, seriously, it’s bullcrap. Thing is, some Catholic leaders in the US like to associate with evangelical political leaders to boost their power in secular society, and that’s the reason you get assholes like Bill O’Reilly, who boast publicly on their suppossed faith and morality, yet publicly contradict basic church doctrine. Kind of went on a tangent there, let’s get back on track.
            Thing is, when all of this satanic panic was going down, heavy metal was pretty popular in my school. A lot of parents, most of them from religiously affiliated pressure groups, were pretty concerned with that, and pressured the school’s administrator (who was actually completely secular) to start cracking down on “satanic troublemakers”, aka, any kid who listened to anything remotedly metal related. There were a couple of school assemblies, and the friars weren’t really that keen on that whole thing, some of them were indiferent, some considered it harmless entertainment, and some were actually much more offended by hair bands and Madonna because they made us hormonal kids all sex obsessed, I mean, as long as you weren’t caught doing something really stupid, like defacing school property with inverted pentagrams or showing up with blatanly short skirds, the everybody were ok with everything, in fact, my philosophy teacher, who had a theology degree from the Vatican, found Iron Maiden’s music “interesting, strangely melodic, and much more complex than most rock music”, so there.
            See, the parents who pressured my school towards that crackdown were in the same pressure group who were calling for censorship, while the parents who didn’t like metal were more about boycotting, big difference there.
            Now, you may ask yourself what does this have to do with the pyramids, or any art piece from history, and sepparating the art from the artist, let’s get to that, since I’ve always been on the fence on that issue.
            On one side, as long as I don’t care that much about the art, I can hate the artist without any kind of remorse or second thoughts, i.e., Burzum, Absurd, Arghoslent, the Nuge and all those beyond shitty Ukrainian bm bands.
            In fact, I actually love hating the fuck out of these racist, homophobic yokels, and enjoy to no end ripping on the stupidity of their apologists. Come on, if you actually think Varg is intelligent, or brave, you either are hopelessly naive or a closet racist yourself. 😀
            Actually, I have a lot of respect towards people who admit being openly racist or homophobic and don’t have to make up byzantine justifications about their taste or opinion, as long as they don’t try to bash the head of one of my cousins, nephews or nieces, I’m cool.
            When it comes to art I care about, i.e. Megadeth, I can still enjoy the art even if the artist (Dave Mustaine) tends to says a lot of embarrassing, out of touch crap that my grandma’s really racist sisters would find too childish to utter themselves in public. 😀

            My main problem with “questionable art” made by “questionable people” is that it can be really hard to explain why you own it when you don’t share the values or philosophy that inspired them.

            Which ultimately brings us with your “pyramids” comment, and why I think that Wagner and Lovecraft are one thing, while ns metal is a very different thing, and pyramids have nothing to do with say, confederate statues.

            My personal oppinion is that the actual point you get to separate the creation from the creator is more dependent of the relation and influence of said art with the current cultural context than anything else.

            Historical figures that had views that today would be considered racist like Lovecraft or Wagner can be separated from the art they created because a) the art they made is great without a doubt and b) they never actually acted out on those views.

            On the other hand, historical figures with questionable views that produced great art but used their craft to advance political agendas that are considered unacceptable today have a much harder time getting their art separated from the views they supported.

            Take Leni Riefenstahl, for example.

            As an amateur black and white photographer and an advertising professional, one of my favorite movies is Triumph of the Will: aside from being a masterpiece of pacing, editing, image composing and framing, it features what may be the most gorgeous black and white photography ever captured on film, yet personally, I would never own a DVD of this particular movie since it’s glorifying an ideology that a large portion of my mum’s family went to war against not long ago, and also, it’s still an inspiration for a lot of jack booted thugs who would, given the opportunity, beat the shit out of a significant portion of my family.

            Also, people have a really hard time believing that you’re not a neo nazi when you have this kind of material in your house.

            It doesn’t matter that Leni Riefenstahl literally spent 30+ years atoning through her latter work (her color photographs of Africa are incredible, or the fact she was one of the world’s greatest female cinematographers and directors at a time when the only roles women had within the movie industry were as actresses, seamstresses, make up artists or low level clerks: because of her involvement with nazism in her early films, people will always have a problem with her art.

            Now let’s talk about Wagner, who, was a German nationalist and a virulent antisemite (like most XIXth century nationalists were), but he never called for “exterminating those awful jews”.

            His antisemitism was more in line with historic German antisemitism, as in, “German jews don’t really love the fatherland and their real allegiance is with Zionism first and the German Empire second, we should limit their influence in state affairs and deporting them wouldn’t be such a bad idea”, and opinion the majority of Germans held back then.

            Years later, nazis were inspired and appropriated his artistic work, and that made his antisemitism seem much worse from association, but truth is, Wagner wasn’t that different from the average late XIXth century German in his views.

            Same with Lovecraft, who, btw, married a Jewish woman, and had a lot of non white friends, his racism was more about eugenics and racial purity (pretty common views in the 20s and 30s) than actual racial violence or considering whites inferior.

            Now, let’s talk about pyramids and confederate statues.
            Pyramids were not built by slaves, that’s a myth.
            Pyramids, and most of big ancient egyptian public monuments, were actually built by professional masons that relied on paid farmers who, during the annual Nile flooding, had not much to do, and this public yearly work for the pharaoh had a very deep religious meaning which started as a way of centralizing state power, and was pretty common among ancient agricultural societies in the Middle East.

            You can look it up, that’s a pretty well known, the “slaves building egyptian monuments” is a biblical trope with very little historical basis, but let’s supposse for a minute that slaves built the pyramids, just for the sake of argument here. The pyramids are considered one of the seven ancient wonders of the world, one of the pinnacles of human engineering and ingenuity. Modern egyptians have nothing to do with ancient egyptians culturally in any way, yet they consider the pyramids a source of national pride, regardless of the circumstances they were built in, because they don’t feel it affects them negatively.

            Now, let’s talk about confederate statues.
            They were mostly erected on the late XIXth and early XXth century, during the height of segregation, lynchings and Jim Crow, in the US South, to celebrate military leaders who fought to keep slavery, and with the explicit purpose of intimidating african americans.

            The difference is pretty clear for me, regardless of aesthetics values: while pyramids don’t affect contemporary egyptians in any negative way, the same can’t be said about confederate statues and southern blacks in the US… we may say that we’ve come a long way since segregation, but there’s still lots of black people alive, who grew up with it and probably suffered from racial violence, in this context is almost impossible to separate the creator from the creation.

            I’m a white guy, and confederate statues don’t affect me personally, but I can understand that they affect a lot of people right now, so I don’t have a problem with taking them down. Also, I find the whole “we’re protecting history, not being racist” when defending speech pretty hypocritical at best, and pretty racist at worst.

            IMO, the actual point society gets to separate the creation from the creator is dependent of the relation and influence to the current cultural context: Wagner and Lovecraft can be easily acceptable today even if they were pretty racist themselves and their art may be offensive now because at the moment their art was created, the cultural context was very different than today, their existence doesn’t affect people negatively in our current cultural context and, at the same time, their aesthetic values are the main reason for their existence.

            NS/WP metal, on the other hand, is the complete opposite, and that’s the reason why it’s so morally offensive and unnacceptable to me and contemporary society at large: not only it praises an ideology contrary to society’s values and that’s affecting very negatively a significantly large number of people everywhere in a very real way right now, in this case the main reason for this particular forms of metal to exist are not aesthetic values per se, but the shilling of an unnacceptable ideology that was, and is responsible for violence and hatred.

            Satanic, death, ultra violent, gore or any metal that talks about unpleasent things get a pass because let’s be honest here, they don’t affect the lives of people negatively. Christian metal (or any religiously affiliated metal that doesn’t openly call for killing non believers) gets a pass because its values are not antithetical to those within their cultural contexts.

            Most political metal I know get a pass because they don’t call for violence, like nsbm do, and when it comes to left leaning or anarchist metal, is most anti system tripe nobody takes seriously… and that’s the difference with ns/wp metal: only a minority takes it seriously, and this minority has acted violenty, and deadly towards minorities.

            I don’t have the answer of where the line should be drawn when sepparating art from artist, I’m just sharing where I draw it personally: when the art is unnacceptable from my moral point of view and it associates itself with political movements whose actions are currently affecting people.

            Personally, I don’t believe in censorship, but I will never believe that’s anything wrong about not tolerating those who are intolerant in the first place. I neither believe in violence, but again, I don’t find anything wrong in being violent towards people who are violent first, especially when it’s violence towards people who can’t defend themselves.

            That’s why personally, I don’t have a problem with antifa, but have a very big personal problem with wp/ns people. I also don’t think antifa and wp/ns are morally equivalent, because antifa is a reaction against wp/ns violence, and when it comes to body count and violent acts, it will take decades for the former to reach the latter.

          • Lone Biker of the Apocalypse

            (A simple “I disagree with your views on the pyramids” would’ve sufficed…)

          • eloli

            Had he stayed with confederate statues, I wouldn’t have even responded, but the pyramids thing was taking the absurdist slippery slope argument way to far, IMO. Also, when an argument is so stupidly absurd, a simple “I disagree” doesn’t cut it, that kind of crap has to be obliterated.

          • Max

            “Stayed with confederate statues”? I never mentioned them in the first place. (For what it’s worth, I actually support removing the Robert E Lee statues. I’m not American but I read a lot of online American media (such as The Root) and I’m quite aware of and convinced by the arguments. It’s not the same thing as removing a statue of slave-owning George Washington.)

            I take your word for it that the pyramids weren’t built with slave labour; you clearly know more about it all than me. It wasn’t even a slippery slope argument, as such; because I know as well as you that the pyramids are never getting demolished or boycotted. I’ll admit it was a bit of a dumb thing to shoehorn into my post; I don’t mind being attacked for it.

            Moreover, my post mentions nothing about either boycotting or censorship, even if admittedly that’s the logical direction of what we’re discussing. It was more a personal reflection on how I reconcile listening to music that I really like despite not liking the views or actions of the people who make it.

            It didn’t even have to be Mayhem for an example. (I don’t actually listen to any NSBM, from the Ukraine or otherwise.) Not approving of animal cruelty, for example, I could have chosen another all-time favourite, Morbid Angel, whose members ALLEGEDLY (according to Nile’s Karl Sanders, as quoted in Albert Mudrian’s Choosing Death) fed live cats to their pet pit-bull terriers. Or another favourite, Deicide, whose frontman once shot a squirrel while being interviewed by the New Musical Express.

            Or I could have chosen Burzum – he might be a Nazi but his music doesn’t explicitly promote that. He’s a murderer; but it wasn’t a racist hate crime. It’s still a murder, though.

            I don’t know the answer other than to say I enjoy the music so much I just have to put such considerations aside. I’d be missing out on a lot of music that changed my life. You put it best:

            :So, IMO, society won’t give me free rides here, if I choose to praise, or own art that goes against the cultural context I live in and I feel comfortable with that, it’s also my responsabilty to accept the fact that people might misunderstand me, and I have to face the consequences that brings without complaining and setting the record straight intead of going out on tangents.”

            Can’t disagree.

            On the other hand:

            “Now let’s talk about Wagner, who, was a German nationalist and a virulent antisemite (like most XIXth century nationalists were), but he never called for “exterminating those awful jews”.”

            Sorry, you’re on thin ground with that one. I can’t find the quote right now, but I’m pretty sure that somewhere among Wagner’s writings are a brief advocacy of something very like the Holocaust.

          • eloli

            Nope, that was actually work of Eva Wagner, one of his daughters, who was a staunch nazi and Hitler supporter, married Houston Stewart Chamberlain, a virulent antismetic, pangermanist english philosopher, and was the one who came up with the ide of associating his father’s more nationalist works in conjunction with nazi propaganda.
            Despite his antisemitism, and the fact that Richard Wagner had very ugly fight with two contemporary german jewish composers, he actually had jewish friends and musicians in his circle, his antisemitism wasn’t different from the mainstream antisemitism of his time, that is, the mid to late XIXth century, let’s not forget Wagner died in 1883, and the Holocaust, as we know it now, started to take form as an abstract in the mid 1930s, and didn’t become a reality until late 1941… before that, the nazis claimed that they’re antisemitism and racial laws were a defense measure against international jewish aggression, and they publicly called for the deportation of german jews rather than their extermination. Historians still debate the exact moment when racial genocide became a nazi objective, but there’s no doubt that Wagner’s figure and oeuvre was co opted by the nazis. True, the guy was an anti semite, he did publish an antisemite pamphlet stating that jews were disagreable people who cared more about money than art or aesthetic values, but he was not a nazi, his art was associated with nazism decades after his death.

          • Max

            As with the pyramids, I’ll bow to your obviously more thorough knowledge about Wagner – especially since I didn’t even bother to track down the relevant quote (if it exists and I’m not just misremembering what I saw on TV decades ago). I don’t mind being proved wrong about stuff.

            Apology accepted on the Confederate monuments issue.

          • GoatForest

            My thoughts are the same as yours on this one. I can deal with art by racists, but not racist art. A lot of shitty humans have made great art. Often that art simply reflects a none shitty part of them.

    • somnium163

      Ιt isn’t some great ability to be able to seperate art from the artist. It just works in your favour as a consumer. You’re able to listen to, say, Burzum and not care about Vikernes helping in propagating an ideology that considers your people subhuman, more or less. Wow, you’re tough, good job on not being offended! Pretty much the whole answer to racism must be looking at your own job and ignoring evil men at power, they’ll just go away. Just like the Jews did before WWII. So yeah, keep repeating Trump’s argument about where to draw the line, because you’re afraid of feminists demanding Cannibal Corpse cds to be taken down (LOL). That’ll work.

      • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

        You okay? You sound upset about something

        • somnium163

          Some people got to be upset when others are just sitting on their asses playin’ tough and justifying racist rhetoric, bro.

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            You seem to be the only one around here who completely misunderstood my point and thus you have chosen to take things that I’ve said completely out of context. Allow me to elaborate. If you read the article, you must have noticed that the author commented that some have mentioned to him that it must be easy for him to separate art from artist because he is white and racist ideologies don’t particularly target him. I wanted to make a point that separating art from artist is a choice and is completely independent from race, and to illustrate that I mentioned the fact that I was Mexican and I was able to do so. Fuck, I didn’t even said that it was THE correct choice; I just said that it was a choice. If for example you choose to never listen to Burzum because Varg is a nazi prick, fine, whatever, it’s your choice and you are free to do so. I never mentioned that it was okay to tolerate or ignore racism, I don’t know where you got that, and I also have no idea where this “playin’ tough” thing is coming from. I also never said that I was smarter or better because I was able to separate art from artist, I just said that it was possible and that I did. I also don’t know where you got the idea that I was endorsing a Donald Trump argument; I did mention him, but if you carefully re-read my original post, if anything I was making fun of him by saying that many of the things he accuses Mexicans in the US of being, he is and I am not. As far as the Cannibal Corpse and feminists thing goes, that is a point about a completely different subject (censorship) that you decided to take out of its context. So, to summarize everything and make sure you got it all, I separate art from artist, I can enjoy a piece of music even if the person behind it has different views than mine. That does not mean that I endorse or even tolerate said person’s views. I am also opposed to censorship because I am a firm believer in freedom of speech, so I am against censoring views even if they are contrary to my own, because once an idea is censored, it’s free season for all because a precedent has been established; it’s either all or nothing, as More Beer said. to illustrate here is an example: I oppose murder, and I believe that if you murder someone you must be punished by law, but I won’t say that you can’t write a song about murder just because I think murder is wrong, because if I do so, the day I want to write a song condemn religion (for example) a religious person will be able to say that I can’t do so because he disagrees with me, and he will be right because I already established that nobody can sing about things that someone thinks are disagreeable. Also, as a bonus tidbit of information, I’ll have you know that I deliberately purchased all Burzum CDs that i own used, because I wanted to enjoy his music but didn’t want to financially support a racist asshole, how about that? I hope this clarifies the point(s) I was trying to make.

          • somnium163

            Ηey, glad I was able to sting you in coming up wth a long response, it shows that it had some impact. For all this talk about misunderstanding and taking out of context though, you seem to be missing some subtle political points (by the way, I’m from Europe so if my English seems funny, let’s try to remain to the essence of things rather than resort to ad hominems).

            1) Race is absolutely not independent from anything, nor the seperating-art-from-artist thing. Racist ideology has a different impact on you, than it has on a white guy. Propagating racist music has a different effect on your group than other groups. Of course its your choice, nobody is talking at a level of stopping you from consuming racist music (BECAUSE WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT CENSORSHIP, see 3). So, it’s not about “being able” to do it. It’s about understanding the effects of every choice, and that because it’s an easier one for white people to take, there’s an element in unethicalness in choosing simply not to care. I’m sure you can say to yourself that you’re seperating the two things and taking care not to promote the 2nd, but reality is a bit more complex: people talking about nazi music ‘just for the music’ has let it grown to the size where it is right now, which to you may not be alarming, to me it is. Even if you bought used cds, you’re still putting money on that economy, and anytime you’re talking about nazi music (especially without mentioning/criticizing the message) you’re promoting its circulation. Personally, I sometimes listen to shitty black metal, but I keep it to myself.

            2) Donald Trump uses the “where does it stop” argument all the time talking about political correctness, last time about the Confederate statues thing. You effectively share the same opinion, because you’re also “not sure” where to draw the line, you just accept everything, hoping that “free speech” solves everything. Well, free speech has also consequences, which puts us to

            3). Nobody wants to censor anything. Goverments censor. People have the right to not accept everything at their local level, if it’s at the level where it promotes violence against them. If a band next door is playing a gig that’s shouting lyrics about starting a race war, they’ve got very justifiable reasons to kick them off their street. When some people protest about a nazi cd and some record label decides to remove it from their mailorder, it’s not censorship. It’s a private decision. Consequences. You’ll be still able to buy it at the source anyway, if you want to. Religion is not the same as racism – we’ve already established in history that the 2nd is inherently evil and threatening to actual people, and we’ve also established that criticizing religion is a right of a subject in every advanced society. If Christians come and say “we don’t want this band playing in our street” they can’t justify it in any means that it threatens their existence. So, the latter won’t really happen – its a false equalization. On the other hand, the propagation of misogynistic ideas DOES threaten the well-being of women, so why not listen to these damn feminists? I don’t see many feminists worrying about CC though, probably because they’re smarter people than you think. Its hateful ideologies they’re after, not some bloody cover. Perhaps you’re also having some priviledges yourself as the white guy in racist issues, in not caring about them, and simply going on about your consumer rights? Well, hopefully you think about these – I didn’t put al this effort for a damn internet argument.

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            Since you want to believe that providing an elaborate response is a sign that you are “stinging me” I’ll try to keep this brief. I never said that I listen to racist music. I said that I can enjoy music regardless of who makes it (see also my post about Skrewdriver). I mentioned censorship because you brought up my comment about Cannibal Corpse (which is also obviously rhetorical and to illustrate a point, not to be taken at face value). I believe in freedom of speech, and if Donald Trump also believes as well then I guess he and I have something in common. And I believe that it is kind of not fair to forever brand someone as racist just because they said some dumb shit when they where young, hence my comment about Norwegian BM. And since it seems you are hellbent on thinking that I am cool with racism I’m not really going to reply to you again. If you want to think that somehow you won because of this, go ahead. I’ll just say that you don’t know me, what I’ve done with my life or what I stand for, but you are judging me based on something trivial and inconsecuential like a few paragraphs I wrote on a website. You know who else judges people based on trivial superficial matters without taking care to actually get to know who they are judging? Racists

          • somnium163

            Ohh the emotional “don’t judge me” response. Maybe Just think about the effects of what you do/the ideas you propagate, rather than trying to justify your intentions next time. Sure, nobody is a racist, but all of you “free speech” first amendment people are doing nothing more than protecting your consumer rights, in a scene that is knee deep in the alt-right/neo-nazism right now. Its an ideology that breeds inaction rather than responsibility and it works in favour of Trump and racist white guys, right now. This is more or less what the author of the article says too, in the 3d paragraph from the end in bold. Think about effects, again.

          • Max

            “I don’t see many feminists worrying about CC though, probably because they’re smarter people than you think. Its hateful ideologies they’re after, not some bloody cover.”

            Just to weigh in since this is personally relevant to me:

            In countries such as my own (Australia), where there is NO constitutional right to free speech, feminists are one of several social groups – Christians are the other main culprits – who can, and frequently DO, lobby to get various artworks banned. Not boycotted – banned. Censored. Withdrawn from sale. Seized at Customs.

            In the early ’90s, there were four death metal albums that were withdrawn from sale due to such lobbying pressure: Cannibal Corpse’s Tomb of the Mutilated, Autopsy’s Acts of the Unspeakable, Dismember’s Like an Everflowing Stream, and Pungent Stench’s Been Caught Buttering. For awhile, Carcass’s Symphonies of Sickness was also on the hit-list.

            After the Port Arthur Massacre of 1996, there was a further crackdown on movies, video games and music whereby the domestic music industry complied not only with the introduction of a classification system (which they actually wrote themselves) but also with a total ban on more extreme records. You can guess who was in the firing line for that along with the gangsta rappers; actually I think Tomb of the Mutilated might’ve been banned about three times in total throughout that decade. (From that day to this, of course – and long before YouTube – I’ve always just been able to walk into any specialty record store and pick a copy of it up; so admittedly the whole thing is academic.)

            From what I’ve read about Cannibal Corpse in the ’90s, they had similar problems in Germany; prevented from playing live there by feminist lobbying. I’m unsure if they still have those problems.

            My point is this: Constitutionally-enshrined protection of free speech is more or less a uniquely American idea. Do not think that the rest of the world – even the West – goes along with it at law. If you’re European, you’d know this already; so I apologize if I’m being patronizing.

            I don’t know what your tastes in music are; I don’t know how you feel about the merits of the right to free speech. But if you like certain classic death metal albums and like being able to buy them, I’d think very carefully before assuming that feminists are necessarily your allies in such matters.

            Feminists are like Christians: There’s alot of them and they have a wide range of beliefs and stances on a wide range of issues. It’s impossible to generalize about them fairly, or to see them monolithically. Some are pro-porn. Some are anti-porn. Some are pro-Grand Theft Auto. Some aren’t. Some are pro-censorship. Some aren’t. Some are pro-free speech. Some are anti-free speech.

            But as with Christians, it’s just interesting how many of the anti-free speech variety seem to end up with jobs on film, music, gaming and literature classification boards. And I’m never going to believe it’s a good idea to have somebody sitting on a classification board who thinks that Symphonies of Sickness is a “misogynist” record despite the fact that its lyrics make NO mention of gender.

          • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

            “In the early ’90s, there were four death metal albums that were withdrawn from sale due to such lobbying pressure: Cannibal Corpse’s Tomb of the Mutilated, Autopsy’s Acts of the Unspeakable, Dismember’s Like an Everflowing Stream, and Pungent Stench’s Been Caught Buttering. For awhile, Carcass’s Symphonies of Sickness was also on the hit-list.”

            All five of those are excellent death metal albums that I would sorely miss if they were to be banned where I live. That’s why I oppose censorship at all levels. Because today its a shitty worthless NSBM record getting banned, but tomorrow it may be a brilliant album that I love

          • Max

            Well, it certainly woke me up to the implications when it happened. Virtually overnight I went from being a socially-conscious punk rocker who would happily have seen Skrewdriver records banned to being a libertarian metalhead free-speech absolutist. That was 25 years ago and I’m not as much of a free-speech absolutist now (and I gave up free market libertarianism a LONG time ago); but I definitely still err on that side of the speech debate.

            I only just discovered Been Caught Buttering – still an all-time favourite – at the time it was withdrawn from sale. The national public radio station’s specialty metal show played it full-length as a protest against the ban. That was my introduction to the record. I had access to one friend’s chewed up cassette copy with the opening two songs muddied out, and that had to tide me over until later in the ’90s when the heat died down and I was able to order a CD at premium price.

            What really hits home to the pointlessness of censorship, however, is not that I was later able to obtain a copy anyway. It was that throughout that period, Skrewdriver records – of all things – were freely available. As was the bulk of gangsta rap. As was, for that matter, Burzum, Darkthrone, Order From Chaos, Blood Axis, Bodycount, Slayer, Throbbing Gristle, Sutcliffe Jugend, and countless other titles across many genres that would surely be just as eligible for some sort of scrutiny as fucking Cannibal fucking Corpse.

            It had nothing to do with “protecting women” and everything to do, as is so often the case in these matters, with specific, coincidental, negative press attention resulting from one school teacher who found a death metal CD left behind in her classroom. That is literally all that set off the chain of events. There is no ideological consistency in these sorts of episodes. There is no legal consistency. There is no fairness. And luckily there usually isn’t even any staying power or administrative will. After a while the heat dies down and everybody goes back to reading, watching or listening to whatever’s in front of them.

            Because let’s face it: If it was about “protecting women” or combating misogyny, you’d have to set up an arbitration committee to decide what few things NOT to ban.

          • somnium163

            Oh, and the “justifying racist rhetoric” was about the part of you downplaying the racist statements of people in the norwegian black metal scene. It’s convenient to see them as edgelords – even though they basically birthed a whole nazi genre of music, NSBM, with their influence. Serious or not, it’s the impact that matters.

  • Snooty McWords

    As a point of clarification, I think it’s also worth mentioning that people are confusing the terms boycott and censorship. Threatening to not support a band, label or concert venue is a boycott, and exerts economic pressure via the free market.
    Censorship is when someone is prevented from expressing something, ie, bands are arrested, interrogated, their houses raided and all their material destroyed by police or some other government authority.

  • Black metal is poser music compared to power metal anyways, who cares right?

    • We are both in genres where everything sounds exactly like the last thing and you know it.

      • I am practicing with a brand new brand literally trying to copy early Helloween/BG tonight, so I can not argue with you

      • somnium163

        Well, formalism will be the eventual death of metal, plus it also invites these people with regressive attitudes in. You guys can joke about it, but if you play yer black metal exactly in the same way as Burzum and Darkthrone did, don’t expect to see much change. Cuz people are about the riffs and don’t pay attentions to the words, like that guy above says, right?

    • The Mighty Thorange

      We all know that there is no race war coming. The inevitable war is the one between Power metal and Black metal fans. One be will declared the warriors of true metal and the losers will be forever branded posers for life. To the victor shall go the spoils of the exclusive right to run through forests with their steel weapons and LARP armour.

  • Freedom Jew

    I just read these articles for the riffs. I don’t pay attention to the words. m/

  • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

    I think we should put spiders in Nazis butts

    • WHICH END OF THE NAZI IS THE BUTT

      • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

        Best put them in both to be sure.

    • GoatForest

      Those poor spiders… I elect centipedes instead.

      • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

        I think that is a reasonable substitution.

    • TheGranulatingDarkSatanicMilfs

      #spiderlivesmatter

      • frozengoatsheadupanunsarse

        What about… slime mould?

        • GoatForest

          Yesssss.

  • FUCK ALL THESE THOUGHTFUL DISCUSSIONS IM GOING BACK TO METALSUCKS WHERE I CAN SHART ON MY KEYBOARD GUILT FREE

  • This will be my only thought wrote about this topic, I think.

    First of all, as a Latino living in a Latino country I have not been in touch with the Nazi vs. SJW tirade. But I know classism, sexism and even racism is still a thing here and I have witness it from time to time. In that way, get my words with a grain of salt due to geographical and cultural inaccuracy.

    My interests in music weren’t always towards “overly negative” lyrical themes, even when I still listen to “horror”, “occult” and “dark” topics. So, I am not too much in touch with the so-called NSBM or bands like GBK.

    Anyways, I think if bands that charges for their art and finance these kind of groups,
    people on the opposite have all the right to boycott, condone their actions and denounce said bands toward autorithies. But, sometimes, these bands does not openly finance their narrow and destructive points of view, they just do the echo chamber about them and that can become troublesome.

    When racism, for example, becomes the norm in language, people can discriminate and judge based on predjudices and biased archetypes. Think that racism is not only applied to “hang-out black people” is also about not giving a person the chance to work because of his heritage or encounter people that yells at latinos for not speaking English in the US. And that’s where I set the deal on these kind of bands. I cannot support musicians financially, but I search for them on Youtube or Google, so if one of those bands make stupid speeches and support negative political stances I don’t do it anymore and stop searching or listening for them. That is my only vote, Internet clicks.

    I tend to think that Metal is not the same genre as 10 or 20 years ago. So that “provocative” and “offensive” value is obsolete today. Modern era is cynical, reclusive and individualist enough to ignore metal. Is metal as popular as the 80s? I don’t know the US, but at least in Venezuela is the same popular as polka. Metal music got so diverse that the juvenile quest to offend groups is a stupid and futile attempt to be “relevant” in the Internet age.

    Freedom comes with a cost: responsability. And that is something that humanity hasn’t learnt on the Internet era. If you are making music that says “KILL ALL LATINOS” or “KILL ALL WOMEN” you better be responsible of what you are comunicating to your audience, even if it’s 3 people at your neighboorhood. Freedom of speech is not a refuge so people can communicate nasty shit and then be offended when someone point you are completely wrong.

  • john

    Trying to be an “All inclusive” genre, by including nazis? Just giving them a free pass is basically legitimising their abhorrent views.
    You should look up Carl Popper’s paradox of tolerance.
    Tolerating intolerance ends badly and bloodily.

    I found this particular sentence to be frankly some of the highest order bullshit I’ve ever read:

    “Regardless of their beliefs, these people paid the same price of admission you did, and they have just as much right to be there hate-moshing on people of color in the crowd as you do. How hard is it to coexist over our mutual love of savage riffs? ”

    Are you shitting me? I’m expected to totally forget that the guy standing next to me seriously wants half the population of the planet dead, so we can have a nice friendly metal hug and get along. Fuck off.

    How in fucks name, do you manage to compare wanting genocide to not liking Finntroll? Genuinely speechless at the comparison. How can you do this mental gymnastics to some how allow this shit? That’s what I don’t understand. Finntroll fans don’t believe anyone is subhuman, and should be murdered en mass for having a different skin colour.

    Nazis don’t listen to reason. It’s pretty fucking unlikely we can convince these psychopaths over a nice cup of tea. They got their extreme views entrenched in them pretty deep, otherwise they wouldn’t hold extreme views. Violence, direct action, boycotts, while not exactly savoury, are the only thing that will move them. Acceptance not matter how small, is the last thing these people need.

    I’m sick of hearing how the Antifa are somehow “The real fascists” for opposing them? It comes from a quote, by Enoch Powell, who was arguably a fucking fascist.

    You keep repeating how you’re not racist. But if you’re willing to share a venue or a stage with people who are openly fascist, people who will openly declare they want to murder brown people, without challenging them, then you might as well be racist.

    • Oh John.

    • GoatForest

      Hey man, I feel I should let you know that Brenocide is doing a satire here.

  • eloli

    I’ve never, ever have posted in this blog, even if I religiously read every post, and I have only one thing to say:

    FUCK YOU, BRENOCIDE, IF YOU THINK NSBM IS NOT A PROBLEM, YOU’RE A FUCKING NAZI ENABLER, AND ALL THOSE WHO THINK LIKE YOU ARE FUCKING NAZI ENABLERS TOO.

    Now, I’d like to do a very long rant about the reasons why I think that, so if you hate long rants, bail out now and call me an intolerant SJW snowflake, if it makes you feel better with yourself.

    Frist, some context. I’m half brit. My wife’s a mulatta. I have two mixed raced daughters, aged six and four. I’m a Gen Xer. All of this may not seem that important, but trust me, it is.

    My maternal grandpa fought in WWII, he was the navigator on a Lancaster. He had two brothers and eight male cousings, they all fought the nazis too, three of them lost their lives. My grandma had six sisters and a brother. His brother lost part of his left leg in France, she worked in a radar station while being pregnant with my mum, all her sisters pitched in to the war effort as nurses, clerks or singers. After the war, my grandparents left England for “the Americas” because, being from Coventry, they got kind of tired of crashing in people houses with three children in tow after getting their house turned into dust by the nazis. Most of the rest of the family followed suit afterwards, and in hindsight, they had it a lot easier than the french, the belgians, the greek, the italians, the czechs, the russians, the poles, the scandinavians, basically almost anyone in Europe besides the spanish and the portuguese.

    But that’s not the point here.

    WWII was a war of aggression, started by the nazis, guided by nazism, an ideology based on racial hatred and genocide. WWII became the most destructive conflict in human history, and it costed more than 40 million lives only in Europe. One of the main reasons this apocalyptic clusterfuck happenned was England and France didn’t really want to fight the nazis at first, and despite knowing the nature of the regime, prefered to avoid a war in 1938, instead of b***h slapping Hitler into sense like they should’ve done.

    Besides being responsible for40 million deaths in Europe, two thirds of them civilian, the nazis caused the Holocaust, the cosncious, engineered destruction of a European culture tracing its roots to antiquity. I had two Holocaust survivors living upstairs for almost two decades in my building. They never, ever told me a concrete stories, it wasn’t needed, I could see their tattoos on their forearms, and already knew how they had lost around a hundred direct relatives just in 1942.

    So, the widely accepted notion that nazism is the worse XXth centry ideology and nazis are among the worse people in history is not open to debate, it’s just a mere fact.
    That why I find it so hard to believe that in 2017, there are some people enabling neo nazis.
    There are no excuses.

    Neo Nazis are human garbage who follow a garbage ideology based on hatred and genocide.
    It’s that simple.

    I can understand that free speech in the US is a big issue, maybe the biggest issue that defines the US as a country, and I can accept that even human garbage like neo nazis deserve their right to free speech, an idea that a lot of European countries, who suffered the consequences of nazism first hand don’t agree with, and very rightfully so IMO.

    What I can’t understand is people equating protestors to neo nazis, and the whole “there are fine people in both sides” thing. There are no nice people in neo nazi and white supremacist movements, period. Most of them are just barely functional, hate filled, violent, subnormal yokels who don’t get that having white skin doesn’t mean they have the right to a better life than everybody, and the few who don’t fall into this category, are just hypocritical, oportunistic, hate filled assholes. A lot of people had to suffer a lot, or die, for us to live in a mostly nazi free world.
    People who say that being violent against nazis is wrong have a very strong point, but after certain point, only violence is the answer.

    I personally abhor violence, but I don’t have a problem with pieces of s**t like NSBM musicians getting the crap out of them, because given the chance, he and the people he defends would beat the crap or even kill my loved ones without blinking.

    I also have no problem whatsoever with shunning NSBM pieces of shit and boycotting them, because we all now that really, eo nazis and white supremacists are the ultimate cowards and hypocrites. They only attack defenseless people, but when faced with people that push back against them, they cry like the sorry bitches they are. Neo nazis and white supremacists are always talking the violent, anti system talk, but when push comes to shove, they retreat. Neo nazis and white supremacists invoke free speech when people get tired about their s**t and call them out, yet they are the ones supporting an ideology based on eliminating free speech, harrassing people and threatening with violence… the same chickenshits who invented doxing in the first place complain now about being doxxed, and the same cowardly shitw who beat the crap out of and killed old people, women, children and even babies without provocation, complain about violent protestors.

    This, also, is not open to debate, that’s how neo nazis and white supremacists have always acted, history and recent events have proven it beyond any doubt.

    People who defend neo nazis in the US are enablers, no way around it.

    If you honestly think that the whole confederate statues thing is not about neo nazism and white supremacy, don’t enable neo nazis and white supremacist by defending them, and make no mistake, equating their actual cause to history or giving false equivalences between white supremacist movements and antifa, blm or anyone who’s rightfully tired of these assohole’s crap is just that, enabling.

    If you’r not a neo nazi or a white supremacist, don’t enable them by defending them, even tangentially, just let them be the awful pieces of s**t they already are, and let them face the consequences of their own shittiness.

    Free speech doesn’t mean you can’t say any hateful crap you want without facing any consequences, it just means that the government in most cases can’t jail you for saying hateful crap and has to guarantee your right to say hateful crap, but that doesn’t mean that if people punch you because they’re tired for being a hateful twat you’re suddenly a victim,

    I find it incredibly sad that, after all the suffering my grandparent’s generation had to endure, we still have this discussions… in the end, my grandpa was right, the problem is not really nazis, the problem is all the people that don’t call nazis on their s**t before they become a problem.

    I have a very personal story regarding this, by the way.

    Back in 2001, my wife (then girlfriend) attended a triple local metal band bill.
    At that time, I was 29, and even if I was completely retired from my local scene, I still went to see all my friends bands. We both get into the club, and while I was greeting some old acquaintances, I overhear some asshole I didn’t know saying something along the lines of “shit, our oli sure likes dark meat, that fucking race traitor”. I turned around and pushed the guy (who I think was really shocked because he thought I didn’t hear him) and told him something along the lines of “come on, pussy, you and me, outside, right now, two get out, one comes back”. Now, I’m a very small guy, 5’6″ on a tall day, and very skinny, but I grew up in three very tough countries, and almost got thrown into juvie at 16, so back then, I didn’t really care about my personal safety that much… that changed a lot when I got married, btw. Anyhow, watching my reaction, the guy, who was obviously bigger than me, around 5’10”, got behind the two friends he had, and I doubled down, I shouted something along the lines of “come on, pussy, don’t hide behind your boy toys, or I’ll have to fight the three of you outside”. Around that time, some of my friends came, and one of them told the guy “look, give my bud and his girl an apology, or he’ll beat the crap out of you, he may be a little shit, but he’s the toughest, meanest little shit I know”. The guy said something along the lines of “look, I don’t have anything to apologize about”, which made me even more livid. While this was happening, one of his friends sucker punched me from behind, I turned around, grabbed his hand and bent one of his fingers backwards without breaking it, when he bent down I got him into a chokehold. At that point, club security intervened, sepparating me from this second guy and grabbing. Now, both security guys were olds scenesters like me, and one of them told me something along the lines of “oli, look, the guy you grabbed is a minor, if you beat him up you’ll end up in jail”. The club owner, an old friend of mine with whom I had played in different bands over the year, talked to me to defuse the situation. In the end, we all stayed through the gig, giving the stink eye to each other all night, and my girlfriend told me that if she ever saw me getting into a fight with anyone she’d leave me, no questions asked. I promised her never to get in a fight again, and kept my promised, thankfully. Yet, this is not the end of the story, it’s actually just the beginning.

    Fast forward five years.
    One of my best friends shows me a demo from one of his new bands.
    The music was great, yet some of the song titles in the demo had a slight antisemitic taint.
    I really didn’t think that much about it until a couple of months later, when I went to hang around with my friend at a band rehearsal: the guy I pushed was the band’s vocalist/bassist, and the guy I almost beat up was the drummer. Both acted as they didn’t know me, and after the rehearsel, I told my friend what happenned.
    He told me something along the lines of “well, yeah, they may be a little nutty, but you know, the band sounds great, they’ve matured, and I’m steerin the band into another lyrical direction, so everything’s good”.

    Fast forward two years.
    My friend’s band’s demo made quite a splash, locally, they self published a CD and in a short time, they became a local fixture opening up on international gigs.
    One very high profile black metal band was going to do it’s first ever show in my town, my friend band’s was opening. I called my friend on the phone, to congratulate him, since it was a dream gig, but he told me that after the gig, he was breaking up the band, because he was tired of these two guys white supremacy crap. Two days after that, the vocalist/guitarist, the asshole I had a spat with seven years ago, ranted on a local radio about “his band’s war on judeo christian morality, race mixing and the jew bankers who pull the strings”, which got my friend’s band kicked out from the gig.

    Fast forward six months.
    A group of white supremacists beat up a local pro LGBT rights activist, leaving him in the hospital and with permanent brain damage. This lead to a police investigation which ended on the arrest of a dozen local white supremacist and the disbandment of a local neo nazi cell. There were four local metal musicians I knew personally in that cell, three of them were part of the beating that started the investigation and fled the country before getting arrested, those three, were the guys I almost fought at the beginning of my story, almost eight years before.

    Maybe this article is satire, but I don’t care.
    Maybe my reading comprehension is off, or nonexistent, I don’t care either, because you can’t go through life saying things and then going on the “it was just a joke defense”, you either stand by your words, or you don’t, if you say something and I misinterpret it, it’s your job to explain yourself and not my job to “gt it”.

    Mr. Brenocide’s point, to me, is:

    “Look, metal has all sortsa folks doing all sortsa strokes and you’re gonna have to deal. Some of us drink Bud, some of us drink Miller. Some of us like black metal, some of us like death metal. Some of us are married with kids and some of us are gearing up wistfully for full blown race war. You don’t have to like it, you just have to allow yourselves to disagree over some things. Regardless of their beliefs, these people paid the same price of admission you did, and they have just as much right to be there hate-moshing on people of color in the crowd as you do. How hard is it to coexist over our mutual love of savage riffs?”

    Well, my answer to Mr. Brenocide is very simple:

    MY LOVE OF SAVAGE RIFFS WILL NEVER TRUMP MY LOVE FOR BASIC HUMAN DECENCY, SO NO, I DON’T WANT TO COEXIST WITH ASSHOLES WHO ARE SHILLING AN IDIOLOGY THAT’S BASED ON KILLING INSTEAD OF COEXISTING.

    Few things in life are this simple. Neo nazis and white supremacists are the enemy of all decent, compassionate, thinking beings. Period. They are a cancer. Nobody ever says “that cancer is shocking the system, so let’s just leave it in your pancreas.”

    As a scene, we’ve tolerated them for almost two decades now… it’s time to start being a little less tolerant with intolerant people for a change, me thinks.

    • “First some context.” Hmm. 🤔

      • eloli

        Context is everything, any functioning adult knows that. 😀

        • I agree, context is everything… help you out here.

          You see that part of my post that says “I’ve heard from a number of sources that anyone who has to hear me out on anything requires a lot of it ” It’s a hyperlink to a different article. Click that link. Read that. Read all of it. Come back and read my post again.

          Jesus christ, dude. Seriously. Did you think I thought Beethoven the dog was really the composer too? Fucking. Wow. Get away from the keyboard.

          • eloli

            If this article is a joke, I’m not getting it.
            Maybe your material’s not that funny. 😀

          • Jake Ist Krieg

            Hey man, I completely agree with all your points, and so does the author of this article. The whole thing is cartoonish sarcasm meant to mock people who actually think this way. That’s what’s going on here.

          • eloli

            Well, if it was sarcasm, it wasn’t very good.
            Also, sarcasm and irony are two of my pet peeves… a lot of assholes think they can get out of anything they say just playing the “I was being ironic” or “You dont get my sarcasm” cards. Just ask people in the US. 😀

          • You’re right, this is all my fault.
            ^^^(this is sarcasm) ^^^
            Hope that helps.

          • eloli

            You’re a very shitty writer.
            This is not sarcasm.
            Hope that helps. 😀

          • That’s fair. Next time I’ll write you 8 paragraphs in all caps.

          • eloli

            Try to write better jokes next times, bad jokes only get worse if you yell them. 😀

          • You got me there. The best joke I ever heard was you trying to come out of this without looking like 200 paragraphs of clueless.

          • eloli

            I’m not trying to get out of this one.
            I honestly didn’t think you were being sarcastic.
            My honest asessment on this piece is that you don’t really care about the subject, but knew you were gonna ruffle some feathers here and don’t have the balls to actually say “Look, I have no moral issue with ns/wp metal and I like some of the music, that doesn’t make me the bad guy, deal with it”, you doubled down on the tangential wp/ns metal supporting rethoric and gave a final wink so you can always play the “I was just being sarcastic card”.
            If you were trying to do satire, it was obviously very bad, satire has to be really over the top and show the sheer absurdity of what you’re satirizing to be effective, you’re not doing that in your article, you’re actually kind of doing a compendium of every indirect wp/ns metal justification out there, and your tone’s off… I mean, lots of awful assholes say awful things indirectly, and when they get called out just go with the “I was only joking”.
            Look, you’re the writer here.
            If you wan’t to satirize a position, you drive it over the top to the point it crashes on the other side of the hill, you don’t get to wink-wink or nudge-nudge your way out of the crap you write.
            If you fashion yourself a writer, you must own the fact that unless you’re perfectly clear, some people won’t get you, and you don’t get to call people who don’t get you clueless, you either state your position clearly or own the fact that you’re not really that good at conveying your thoughts.
            That’s the problem with using irony and sarcasm: a lot of people will take you literally, or parts of what you say literally, and it’s your problem explaining yourself, live with that.
            Also, if you’re the one that has to understand that if you’re willing to joke about touch topics like this thorugh humor, unless you’re 100% clear and really funny, you’ll inevitably get misunderstood and rub some people the wrong way, and you’re the one with the problem here.
            Seinfeld must be my favourite tv show ever, but at the same time, the way Jerry Seinfeld’s been complaining for almost a decade now how “sensitive PC people” ruin humor is way off IMO, the problem is that he got old, his material stopped being edgy, and audiences today don’t find his jokes funny.
            You can call me clueless all you want, and throw all your hipster ironic detachment towards anyone who didn’t get or simply doesn’t find your piece funny, or useful, but the real issue here is that you’re just a shitty satirist incapable of grasping the seriousness of the topic you’re writing about, and by banalizing it, you’re ultimately giving more ammo to the turds you’re suppossing writing against.

          • Lacertilian

            He literally used Beethoven, a kids movie about a comically large family dog, to illustrate his point.
            If you don’t think that qualifies as “going over the top” to signify parody, you need to log the fuck off and go to bed.

          • eloli

            I already explained my asessment of this article, and no, I don’t think it was good as satire.

          • This blog is a community. Engage with it before attacking it and you’ll feel much better. The fact that it is insular should be praised–because that’s what makes it a nice little oasis in the wasteland otherwise called The Internet.

          • Dubby Fresh

            You also have to engage a little while to unlock the nudes.

          • WAIT THERE’S NUDES???? WHAT LEVEL ARE THEY ON??

          • Ted Nü-Djent ™

            And in one article you’ve written more than what every single comment has written. Ever.

          • This whole argument was a comically large family dog.

          • more beer

            But St Bernard’s are by far the most useful dogs. If you are laid out in some frozen wasteland in the Alps, they will bring you Brandy. They may not save you but at least you will die drunk.

          • My honest assessment of this is you’re bending over backwards to vilify me as an nsbm sympathizer because you showed your ass and you’re embarrassed. Me roasting you a little for missing the point a little bit is nothing compared to you bunching me in with the guys I spent a good chunk of my time obviously putting on blast in this article.

            We’re on the same side, for fuck’s sake. Let. It. Go.

          • eloli

            If you feel vilified, I apologize, and if you need a public apology from me, or need testimony from my part that you’re not a nsbm symathizer, I have no problem in providing it.
            If you feel the need to contact me for further discussion, we can get in touch.
            I don’t have a problem about showing my ass, you know, it’s a very honest ass. 😀

          • Jake Ist Krieg

            I know what you mean, but this is specifically parody. I mean, If you take a look at the article you’ll see shit like the author claiming Beethoven was a dog. He very clearly signaled what he was doing.

          • GoatForest

            Yeah, but Brenocide had got a well documented history writing satire. If you reread it for what it is, I think you’ll actually find the article pretty funny.

          • Yes.

          • eloli

            Ok.
            My bad.
            If you’re a hipster, then it’s ok, hipsters don’t have the balls to care about anything so we’re good. 😀

          • more beer

            This is the first upvote I have ever given for anything hipster.

          • eloli

            Now you’ll have to live with that! 😀

          • more beer

            I am cool with it.

        • i will never fuck with you, sir.

        • GoatForest

          I take offense to the idea that black metal is inherently racist. What does Satanism and death worship have to do with the 14 Words or nationalism?

      • somnium163

        You did miss the sarcasm, but good post nonetheless. By the way, a question. Do you know in which bands played these people that attacked the LGBT activist? Where there any news about that?

        • eloli

          It wasn’t in the US, it was in Uruguay.
          That’s the small, pot lovin’ country between Argentina, and Uruguay, where my grandparents migrated to after WWII, I lived half of my life, currently reside in and expect to live in the future.
          The story I told happenned long ago, there was a lot in the news back then, but neo nazis here are a problem, this happenned last week:
          http://www.elpais.com.uy/informacion/policia-pasos-celula-neonazi.html
          Dunno if you can understand spanish, but I know one of the guys who was questioned by the police from this particular incident from our local scene.

          • somnium163

            Thanks, it’s interesting. Here in Greece it’s probably as bad or worse, lots of radical active neo-nazis in the nsbm scene and people that like them/accept them in the bm scene.

          • eloli

            Down here, there are less than a hundred, but they have hurt people. Uruguayans (and it pains me to say this, because even if I was born in London, I consider myself Uruguayan) are subtly racist.
            Most of them are descended from spaniards or italians who came to America in the early to mid XXth century, blacks and mulattos are a very small minority, and they consider themselves whiter than other South Americans, much like Argentinians. As far as I know, there were never segregation laws after slavery was abolished in the mid XIX century, but black people have been systematically discriminated for more than a century, and are substantially poorer and less educated than the national average because of this. Uruguayans don’t really think non whites are inferior, but at the same time, they openly prefer white people, make lots of racist comments and jokes, and consider blue eyes and light skin the epitome of beauty… when my daughters were born, everyone around me were raving about how beautiful they were because they turned up light skinned, blond and blue eyed, and some acquaintances actually told me I was lucky they didn’t inherit their mum’s darker skin and thick, curly hair.
            Anyhow, our local metal scene is small, we all know each other, and I know at least three people from the cell in the article I shared with you that are members of the scene… sad, really.

    • more beer

      Do want to know what is really enabling Neo Nazi’s?, All of the attention that they are getting from the media, the metal media and all of these groups going out and protesting and fighting with them. These groups have been around for a long time in America. They never got to big. Because rational people paid them no mind. We let them enjoy their First Amendment rights and have their little marches, they would go out and talk their bullshit, then go home and iron their sheets until the next time. When they would be ignored again. We had their numbers in check, until Trump got elected and suddenly everyone who voted for him became a Nazi. On top of which all of this is just being used as a distraction so that the powers that be can find new and improved ways to fuck the rest of the world.

      • eloli

        You know what really enables neo nazis?
        Assholes who don’t think wp/neo nazi assholes are not a problem and are just a bunch of silly guys doing silly marches.
        Throw me a bone, here…
        Wade Michael Page doesn’t exist, neither does Dylan Rooff, it’s all a big conspiracy by jewish bankers, aka the powers that be finding new and improved ways to fuck the rest of the world, that hysterical SJWs love to spread.
        Trump is not a racist, he doesn’t have a significant number of wp supporters voting for him, and nobody died at Charlottesvile, that’s all fake news.
        Black Lives Matter is not a legitimate movement against racism, they are only a bunch of misguided thugs.
        The police is not racist.
        There, got it.
        Am I a rational person like you now?

        • more beer

          Be a blind fool. That is your choice. Let me explain something to you, we have this little thing here called The Constitution it is the law of the land. Whether you like it or not hate speech is actually protected speech here. I will defend The Constitution to the end, because if they can take one groups free speech they can take mine as well. Yea every cop is a racist, do you know how stupid you sound. You do realize how the media works don’t you? They take the most polarizing thing they can and splash it all over the headlines. BLM is a whole different matter, maybe if they didn’t use every protest as a reason to rob and loot I might actually support them. People work their asses off to build a business, they have no right to use a protest as a reason to rob these people and burn their stores down. They have the right to peacefully protest. People kill each other everyday for all different reasons. But you cite 2 guys who acted on their own who had fucked up beliefs. Where is the outrage when 100 people get shot in a weekend in Chicago. Oh that’s right there is none it is business as usual there. Maybe if the thugs in Antifa would have just let the protest in Charlottesville take place, since they were there legally with permits, exercising their First Amendment rights. Antifa came looking for a fight and they got it. Both sides have blood on their hands there. How many Nazi’s dou you really think are in America? The largest group is the National Socialist movement has 400 members in 32 states, If their are 20,000 total in the entire country I would be really surprised. In a country of 323 million that isn’t really too many Neo Nazi’s, is it? The best way to control populations is by dividing and conquering, which is what all of this stuff is. But go onn and keep thinking we have some huge Nazi problem here. Because that is what the media wants you to believe.

        • Grizzly

          Who do you think is committing the actual violence?

          In total numbers, the actual tally of political violence committed by the political right is miniscule, and when compared to the total number of Whites in the US it is practically non-existence. You only think it is a major problem because you see it constantly in the media.

      • Grizzly

        Neo-Nazis and the KKK are mostly a few isolated weird goons with too much time on their hands, and who nobody truly takes seriously.

        Antifa are a lot of goons in big liberal cities who have too much time on their hands plus expensive student loans, with spineless politicians in their back pockets.

        If actual fascists became a real force in the US and broke out the Mausers, then you’d really be in for a world of hurt.

        • more beer

          I agree. All this is, is a way for the powers that be, to separate and divide us . While distracting us from what is really going on.

    • Grizzly
    • Grizzly

      In all seriousness though, “white supremacists” and “neo-Nazis” are almost totally politically irrelevant, at least in the US. The KKK is probably 80% undercover FBI agents trying to nab the 20% who are true believers.

      Guess who is actually committing violent acts? The political left–just look at Antifa. Or how about black gangs? They have probably killed more black people in the past 3 years than the KKK did in its entire existence.

      Who are the people in Europe committing mass sexual assault ramming down people in the streets? Muslims.

      Right-wing extremists? Not so much. Its just a way for the news media nomenklatura to deceive the gullible fools who take them seriously.

      “I DON’T WANT TO COEXIST WITH ASSHOLES WHO ARE SHILLING AN IDIOLOGY THAT’S BASED ON KILLING INSTEAD OF COEXISTING”

      Ok, so deport every observant Muslim.

    • Ted Nü-Djent ™

      Welcome to the Toilet

  • Toxik Avenger

    People complaining about a boycott? If you don’t not like it, don’t don’t buy it.

  • Pingback: 95 - Taylor Swift - Heavy Blog Is Heavy()

  • Pingback: Heavy Pod Is Heavy Is Heavy Cast – 95 – Taylor Swift – earpeeler()