Angry ≠ Extreme: A Discussion of Emotion in Noise


I am disappoint.

Our dear friend, Edward has been fairly vocal about his take on hatred and music. For Edward, Noise, Power Electronics, and related genres seem far more hateful and especially extreme, than the most extreme of metal. I found myself in agreement with the man. Until one particular conversation in which he stated that “[in noise] anxiety meets a savage, desperate violence”, and I began to question this aspect of violence in sound. Sure, this seems a pretty apt description of most artists we have covered here in The Toilet, whether it’s Swallowing Bile or Herukrat or even Grunt. But in the end, something felt wrong. Perhaps it was the rather tame experience that was Frozen Niagara Falls, lacking ferocious anger, that finally convinced me: hate is not only an unnecessary element in noise but also often a devoid one. I have begun to perceive noise as the child of disappointment rather than hatred.

You see, hatred is far too imminent to be disguised as anything else. What makes it extreme comes directly from its raw power, whereas disappointment draws it’s power from longevity. Disappointment will never disappear. Hate will eventually consume it’s bearer leaving him/her too powerless to go on, either completely or just go on hating. With disappointment there won’t be the inevitable collapse and lashing out that follows anger, instead a slow descent to helplessness follows. The only way to not be disappointed anymore is to somehow affect whatever you were disappointed at and change it. Of course, one can learn not to worry, but as things remain the same so do the feelings and you just ignore them.

In a way disappointment is responsible for many of our everyday actions, whether it’s a disappointing selection of goods at our grocery store or a failure of a politician, disappointment is known to us in some form. Naturally we are more shaken by something which we face rarely, something that appears much more fearsome than it is because we know nothing of it, something that seems so powerful it could push through any barrier at all, something that might already have pushed itself so far there is no going further. Something like hate.

This is not to say that noise or its derivative genres could never appear angry or that metal couldn’t express disappointment. If you listen carefully, most metal that does express disappointment chooses a way laden with melancholy and sorrow rather than menace or aggression. My point is simply this: Noise and it’s derivative genres are in most cases more extreme than metal because of (extreme) metal music’s obsession with anger and tendency to vent out frustration.

Hatred is too imminent to be disguised but it can be the disguise. Being disappointed leads to a showcase of emotion and I am a Finn (with a relatively conservative upbringing). This may be why I perceive things as I do (or maybe not, I can’t say for sure how much the social atmosphere and upbringing really have shaped my views). You see, I was taught never to show emotion, never to smile. I was taught that I must take the inevitable without a flinch. To me disappointment is (socially) unacceptable. Or rather: showing disappointment means that all is not well and at all times I was taught to give an impression the world could not touch me. This is why disappointment is bad, utterly wrong even. When I listen to noise, I am forced to come to terms with it. I am disappointed by more things any man should be, which means most likely so are others. It’s a world of emotion beneath the surface that I see. It is weakness but disguised as something more manly. Noise buries all this under layers of distortion and usually a showcase of aggression as well. Without this it could be too much to bear. For you see, aggression is the accepted (but simultaneously shunned) expression of having feelings of some kind. The only accepted expression.



We have faced music born of aggression countless times, have we grown so used of it there is no further extreme to be found there? And more importantly, is the notion that extreme is that which pushes boundaries a false one? Are our views of pushing the boundaries merely expression caused by breaking the social norms, is that enough? Tough questions, chime in below and feel free to call me an idiot for even having to ask questions this easy.


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  • Dagon

    According to the American Psychology Association, 80% of males suffer from some degree of Alexithymia, which is defined as a “sub-clinical inability to identify and describe emotions in the self”.

    Even though I come from a country in which feelings can be expressed, sometimes even too much, there is a definite bias towards good feelings. It’s okay to be effusive, and excessive friendliness is encouraged and considered “the norm” in what seems to be the majority of the country. Being sad or disappointed, in the other hand, is frowned upon. It’s considered unnatural; something to be ashamed of or something to be corrected immediately.

    Which is probably why you’ll never see a black metal album topping a Brazilian chart in a million years, maybe not even a “regular” metal album achieving same level as sucess as the genre achieves in your corner of the world. Sepultura never enjoyed the same praise in Brasil as it did pretty much anywhere else in this planet.

    I don’t even know what I’m trying to say anymore.

    • M Shadows!

      Sometimes when I’m hunting loofahs they surprise me and splash soapy water in my eyes. But since I always wear aviators it’s ok. But then they try to shampoo my hair and THAT IS WHEN SHIT GETS FUCKING REAL. do you like muffins?


      • Dagon

        I love muffins.


        • Kevin Nash & Friends

          I love muffins but not as much as croissants.

      • KJM

        I like turtles. M. SHADOWS!!!!

    • I can back up everything of this. We are a bunch of lifelovers over here and we see “bad feelings” (sadness, dissapointment, anger, bleakness) as the very very bad and the avoidable. Latinamericans are afraid of have this and think it’s unnatural to feel that way.

      Only smilies are real here 🙂

      • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

        I think it’s sort of backwards because as a people we are father sorrowful, depressed assholes even. So frowning upon the expression of this is ridiculous. That’s how it is, but it’s ridiculous.

        • To be honest, I feel very displaced about how people behave around. I’m not trying to be elitist or prepotent, but it’s really a problem to be a reserved person around here. So, I think Finland and Latinamérica are just two opposite sides.

        • Dagon

          Do you think that might be why metal is more popular in Finland than it is in the Amazon or in Venezuela? Maybe people see the music as a way to express the feelings they do not express in their daily lives.

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            I had never thought of that before you mentioned it but it’s an interesting thought. I think it’s possible this is at least one reason, heavier-mood and darker tunes have always been favored here. Even our Tango is depressed. And our folj songs are mostly about bad things. My favorites include one about being pregnant and no one caring and one called “No one gives a shit how/where/when you die”

          • Dagon

            Music has probably been an outpouring of bottled up Finn feels for ages now.

    • Mother Shabubu III 12 BRICKS

      “Being sad or disappointed, in the other hand, is frowned upon.”


    • Mother Shabubu III 12 BRICKS

      On a serious note, I read somewhere that the average youth in America right now would be considered more nuts than the nuttiest mental patient in like the 1940’s or 50’s. People in this country are dangerous. They bottle up stress and negative emotions from being overworked and underpaid. Men are pressured to never show real emotion. Women are chastised for showing too much emotion. People here yearn for a deeper meaning because their lives are so boring and vapid. Sure life is better over here than a lot of other places, but it’s set up in a way that is very unhealthy. There’s a reason we have so much gun violence, or violence in general with police/people of color/nut jobs/etc. We exist in this constant state of malaise. Almost like how I imagine an animal in a zoo feels.

      PS: Lulz at Alexithymia. I’ve been trying to achieve total nihility as a way to sever myself from being human. But it doesn’t work because I am one unfortunately. Void >>>>

      • Dagon

        I was going to reply in a serious manner but then I read Alexititties and I’m giggling like the meat headed motherfucker I am.

        • Mother Shabubu III 12 BRICKS

          Alexithymia Laiho.

      • You’ve just summarized the major plot and themes of my last dicknovel.

      • old_man_doom

        Fucking nailed it. Bring back Void

      • KJM

        And that’s how the ultra rich and the poverty stricken develop mental illnesses for pretty much the same reasons.

      • There’s so many forces at work that contribute to this malaise. I attribute it to having so many splinter groups attached to stupid causes that we are collectively distracted while the powers that be try to siphon every last ounce of our being from us. Taking sides on issues is a losing game in my opinion because the split is always 50/50. The result no unity, no one is united for one common cause – progress.

        • Mother Shabubu III 12 BRICKS

          Exactly. It’s cliche as fuck, but it’s divide and conquer tactics. Things like people’s race, sexuality, religion, etc, are easy to exploit. Keep them fighting with each other so that they don’t see the diminishing quality of life caused by our and their greed and disregard for living things. We’re doomed. DOOOOOOMMMED.

          • Exactly, it’s the root cause of just about every single problem facing the human race today.

    • Is this because from a sociobiological standpoint emotions in men are useful to the organism but not to the species?

      I, too, have no clue what I’m trying to think, let alone say . . .

    • tertius_decimus

      In post-USSR space, especially in Russia (in Ukraine to less degree), everything bad, depressive, criminal and so on is normal. Friendly people may be considered as “hypocritical” ones and overall good feelings are some sort of taboo. You’ll see happy (I mean, REALLY happy) smile on Slavyanic face on a very rare occasion.

      • The W.

        This is nearly the opposite for where I live in Texas. The culture here is fixated on politeness, and strangers are sometimes uncomfortably nice.

        • tertius_decimus

          Japanese people love my country deeply and unconditionally for that reason: their highly hierarchic society forces them to be polite when they don’t wanna do so. When they come here, they see that nobody cares to keep that level of politeness, so people may seem for them “true” and “straight forward”. If someone hates you, you know it — deep relief for Japanese mentality.

          • The W.

            That is very interesting. I love traveling and seeing differences in cultures. There are even regional differences in the US. People in New York tend to act quite a bit differently than those in the south.

          • tertius_decimus

            I’ve heard something alike on that matter: “I’m from New York, keep yourself at a distance if your skin isn’t thick enough”.

          • KJM

            New York is HUGE. There are plenty of friendly faces to be found, just don’t go looking for them in Midtown Manhattan during the workday.

          • The W.

            I wasn’t saying people there are rude, per se, just that they tend to be more brisk and less overtly polite. I think it has a lot to do with pace of life.

          • KJM

            Boston is like that as well to a much smaller extent. I don’t even like going into Boston unless I have to and I’m only right next door.

            I’ve asked police in Boston, Cambridge and other nearby cities for directions and they were all happy to help me out. I would never ask an NYPD cop for directions. They would more than likely tell me to go fuck myself(for real).

          • The W.

            Haha, I believe that. I like DC a lot, but I get the same vibe from that city. I visit DC once a year for a my industry’s main conference.

        • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

          To this I’d like to say (but you may know, I probably say the same things over and over again): Please avoid doing this if you ever visit Finland. Some research indicates Finnish people are extremely sensitive to smile. If it’s not authentic, you will not be trusted at all and it’s considered, shall I say, a con attempt or some such.

          • The W.

            Ha, good to know.

          • What about Iceland. Can I smile in Iceland?

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            In Iceland the summer sun is so bright, even in winter, it doesn’t matter. No one will see you smile anyways.

          • Thank goodness. I’m supposed to visit there in November. (Not that I’m in danger of smiling in public anyway . . .)

          • Mother Shabubu III 12 BRICKS

            That sounds rather ominous. That should be on a t-shirt. “In Iceland, no one can see you smile”. It’s like “in space, no one can here you scream”.

          • This is the way it should be imo.

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            The Finnisher way? I like it, because I’m accustomed to it but also because all kind of fakeness and hypocrisy sickens me in others.

          • I just really hate doing the fake smile thing. It feels insincere as hell.

          • Mother Shabubu III 12 BRICKS

            “No smiles”

            – Joe “Führer der Toilette” Thrashundkill

      • Dagon

        2 Russian students stayed at a good friend’s house to do research here. They talked to me about the differences between Russia and Brasil and this was one of the most remarkable differences in their opinion.

        Also, they said a lot of small stuff, like bumping into someone in a crowded place, ended in violent altercations whereas here people just say sorry and move on (most of the time).

        • tertius_decimus

          > Also, they said a lot of small stuff, like bumping into someone in a crowded place, ended in violent altercations

          True thing. As an example, using municipal transportation opens endless possibilities to be embroiled for no reason. One of the most agressive surroundings in CIS countries.

          • Dagon

            Shit is crazy.

      • Óðhinn

        Russian stoicism.

    • I’d fit right in out there in South America. I’m in a good mood almost all the time.

      • Dagon

        I am, too. Perhaps due to living here since birth, whenever I’m “out”, even if it’s class or work related I am in a good, having fun mood. I learned that through some family members as well, most notably my godfather. Dude is always cracking jokes and gets to know everybody everywhere because of it.

        Even if I like to listen/watch/read or if I’m thinking about some dark shit I am a lifelover, I guess.

        • Same here, my dad’s side of the family (the Italians) are a fun loving bunch. That’s where I get it from.

          • Dagon

            I believe every stereotype has a degree of truth to it. There’s a lot of Italian families in Brasil as well, but most of them are not in my area.

        • Latinamerican funerals are the worse. Everyone is around making jokes and drinking coffee.

  • “We have faced music born of aggression countless times, have we grown so used of it there is no further extreme to be found there?”

    My thoughts on “aggressive/extreme” music: At the risk of sounding like an asshole (again) I feel that people who can only identify with angry music need to literally grow the fuck up and/or go outside and talk to people. I don’t know ANYBODY who only watches horror movies or other forms of “extreme art.” Why do some people ONLY identify with shit that is borderline white-noise with the same tired (beaten-to-)death vox? (inb4 someone who sees him or herself in this comment goes “but I listen to stuff like Chelsea Wolfe and whatever else Noisey assures me is sufficiently ‘pushing some boundaries!'”)

    It’s gotten to the point where today’s self-professing metalheads literally get stangry because one of their extreme metal bands can’t completely blow their narrow minds with each and every subsequent release. …or just doesn’t personally deliver unto them the album they wanted to hear. Perhaps most people who only listen to angry music aren’t really angry in their day-to-day lives. But the passive aggression and butthurt is too often manifest in their snimperings and replies to people who don’t like their favorite music (or who like music that REALLY makes them angry. That’s something I still don’t understand and recommend professional psychology to address.)

    I KNOW there’s no further extreme to be found in extreme metal. If there was it wouldn’t be so goddamned redundant and stale. Especially in the vocals. Something has to change for any real progress to be made; if it were up to me it would start with everyone’s obsession with and overuse of the term “metal.” Perhaps find some extremes in other forms of music than this.

    • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

      I mostly agree with these thoughts but I do think extreme metal can still push boundaries, as long as the obsession with “anger” is overcome.

      • Maybe.

        I was just thinking about my last sentence and realized that modern-day metalheads have co-opted pretty much every other form of music that could possibly be extreme and put that stupid fucking “-metal” after them (so as to call everything they like “metal.”) So maybe that’s a useless hope as well.

        • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

          I actually managed to miss that last part until now. I think it’s an interesting thought but indeed perhaps a “hopeless” one.

      • CT-12

        Hey man, just wanted to say that I thought this was a pretty well thought out, and dare I say, beautiful article. I really liked your paragraph before the Grunt video.

        • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

          Thanks, mang.

          • Sir Tapir the Based™

            Unrelated, but surprise surprise, I was wrong about Lasten Hautausmaa. Actually it be fire. Also, good article, senkin mulkvisti.

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            That’s a one-two-punch for Bear!

          • Sir Tapir the Based™

            Svart is on fucking fire this year. Also digging Cult of Endtime a lot.

          • Paddlin’ Rites ov Beargod

            Yes! Svart is one of my currwnt favorite labels.

    • I feel like boundaries can always be broken. At the same time I won’t force myself to listen to something just because it’s pushing boundaries or whatever. I don’t care what sub genre something is. Bottom line is if I like what I hear I will listen. Whether or not it’s simple minded or extreme or progressive or kvlt or whatever has no bearing on my opinion of a song. If it stimulates my eardrums in a way that is pleasing to me I will listen.

      • Hell, yes. I’ve been listening to Hendrix and T. Rex today. That’s it thus far (other than snippets from past posts here.)

        • Kevin Nash & Friends

          T Rex rules.

          • I have Electric Warrior on SACD. Be jealous.

          • KJM

            I’ve got a fuckton of Marc Bolan/T Rex on 24/96 and various other formats, including the beat to death vinyl copy of ‘The Slider’ that I’ve owned for nearly 40 years. I also recently taught myself to play ‘Main Man’, ‘Ballrooms Of Mars’, and ‘Highway Knees’ on geetar. I guess you could say I’m a fan.

          • TrickleDownOvTacoKvltRiff

            good stuff mang!

          • I hear the original British pressings are the way to go. It’s really tough to find one in decent shape (for a reasonable price.)

          • KJM

            They are, and it is. I still remember when all you could get easily in most record stores was ‘Electric Warrior’ and ‘The Slider’.

          • Kevin Nash & Friends

            Damnit. I wish I had that.

          • This actually won’t play on a standard CD or DVD player. It’s a limited release that only works on players capable of SACD playback.

          • Óðhinn

            You can plat SADCs on a Mac. Is Sony still backing the format? They are notorious for abandoning their failed (and even successful) forays into audio technology.

          • SACDs can not really be played on a Mac or any computer (unless they’re hybrids; which have a Redbook CD layer that’s playable on standard CD/DVD-V drives.) Which is fine for people like me who don’t listen to music on a computer. I have a stand-alone player in my stereo that plays SACDs and DVD-As.

            Yes, Sony’s still supporting the format because new titles are still being released today. It’s a niche-product for sure.

          • Óðhinn

            Interesting. I never got into SADC or DVD-A, although in my younger years I would have been very susceptible to newer and better audio formats as they came along. I was really into Sony MiniDiscs when they first came out for example. I still like vintage gear though. I’ve heard differing stories about whether SADC or DVD-A are actually significantly audibly superior.

            I’m not an expert, but from what I’ve been told the Redbook version is not necessarily needed for Mac if you have to right software or codec support.


          • MiniDiscs were pretty cool. I used to have a player in my car even as late as 2007.

            SACDs and DVD-As are technically superior but it’s very debatable whether the differences can actually be humanly perceived. (IMO CDs are sufficient.)

            Not sure if the software you linked to is actually capable of circumventing the copy-protection found in SACDs but it’s worth a look.

            …on another note: I apologize for the tone in my reply to you below. I should have worded it more politely.

          • Óðhinn

            Apology accepted. I apologize if my comments to you had a bad tone as well. I do like to debate, but have no ill will towards you as a person.

          • Óðhinn

            I actually thought I’d heard the most extreme music when bands like Venom, Slayer, and then Morbid Angel came along, and I was wrong. But perhaps, at some point, there is a “law of diminishing returns” when it comes to extreme sounds. It’s difficult to predict the future, whether it’s what audio format will become widely adopted, or what the next sound might be. it’s fun to speculate though.

          • I thought Reign In Blood was really extreme when it first came out. I wasn’t immediately sold. Didn’t hate it but it was a bit much for me then. I came around when I heard South of Heaven.

            There are some truly great bands today on the extreme-side of metal. I just get easily bored if I can’t discern some sort of decent songwriting…like found on some of Borknagar’s later releases, for example. It’s really subjective though. I bought the last Blut Aus Nord without even listening to it because people kept telling me about the “riffs.” I didn’t hate it, it was just so repetitive that I grew weary of it after a listen and never went back to it.

            I’m a bit hypocritical about that though TBH. I don’t mind boring and repetitive when it’s more “industrial” or minimalist/electronic stuff.

          • Óðhinn

            I had a similar initial experience with Reign In Blood. It was like, “Whoa! Can they do that? Is that even legal?” But it was different, and it had quite a few hooks. It didn’t take me long to love it though. I was the first amongst my friends to own the album, and shared it with my friends. I loved South of Heaven too.

            This Blut Aus Nord song is repetitive but is more about the atmosphere than the riffs. It has a great atmosphere in spite of being long.


          • This I don’t mind.

          • Óðhinn

            I thought you might like that one. I wouldn’t say it’s representative of their catalog as a whole though.

      • I think that too much people think of the genres as guidelines and in the structures more than in the content.

        I’m going full with my social communicator here: I don’t care about the genres, to be honest, I just want that the genre must be a way to expression (whatever expression needed by the artist) and not a regulation in which you can stick to it.

        In the end you only have: noise or music. And you can work in both ways to construct a message, a communication.

      • Well said Agent Bauer, if something is good, it’s good.

    • I just went outside and talked to a person. He didn’t understand English and his face had the almost intangible cast of a real fucking dickhead. So I went back inside and put on some Chelsea Wolfe.

      Did I do it right?

      • At least you made the effort. Try again tomorrow 😉

      • No, you need to tell that person that he’s a “normie and a pleb”. Remember that.

        • Kevin Nash & Friends

          Link plz! I’m a normie, at least IRL!

          • J.R.


          • Kevin Nash & Friends

            JR plz!

    • Tyree

      I can identify with it I guess, I don’t know… I just like it really! Every one needs to grow up in some sense though. I don’t think identifying with angry music makes you a person that needs to grow the fuck up. I’m boring, I mostly like the same oldschool style of extreme metal wether it’s thrash, black metal, death metal, doom, ect. I can listen to the same OSDM rip off band for the rest of my life and be excited about it. I could have read this wrong though, but I like a shit ton of angry extreme metal and I’m not going to stop listening to it or be fascinated by it. Do I need to grow up? Fuck yes I do, but I take care of bills for a car, a house, and I have a job. Angry extreme metal with the same beaten-to-)death vox is not something that makes me say to my self “GROW UP TYREE”. I don’t know though. I’m an idiot.

      • I agree. If anything it takes much more brain power and maturity to be able to appreciate extreme metal. It only becomes childish when someone refuses to give anything outside of that spectrum a chance because it isn’t kvlt or something. Or when they say everything else is shit music in comparison.

        • Tyree

          Like I said, I’m boring and I stick to the same extreme olschool style of metal bands mostly. But, I definitely give newer extreme bands a chance. Look at doom and sludge these days. Holy fuck has that become more extreme than it ever has been. Primitive Man is the heaviest and most hateful sounding shit I’ve heard in a long while.

      • Nah, you’re not an idiot Tyree. I know you love grind and crust and stuff. (I like it too but in far more moderation probably because old IDK.)

        …but you don’t *just* listen to this stuff. The fact that you openly say you love Whitesnake is enough for me to never forget you’re a cool motherfucker and have some balance 🙂

        • Tyree

          Oh yeah! I like all that classic shit man. I’ll never forget listening to that stuff with my dad in his truck as a kid. Without it, I would not be here talking to you right now.

    • Óðhinn

      As a long-time Metal fan, I couldn’t disagree with you more Jay. Metal today is better than ever, and attempts to cage the term Metal as if it can be contained by individuals within a specific 1980s aesthetic, without ever changing, will just make you bitter. Some people find solace in extreme music and that’s fine. Many people, like myself, listen to a lot of Black, Death, Sludge, Thrash, and Post Metal, but also listen to things like Jamiroquai, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Pink Floyd, Billie Holiday, Iron Maiden, Ozzy Osbourne, EPMD, The Tragically Hip, and (yes) Chelsea Wolfe. Emotion is an important component of music. From where I sit, you sound a bit narrow-minded. Go outside and get some Sun. Try to be more happy and open-minded, and less bitter.

      • “…attempts to cage the term Metal as if it can be contained by individuals within a specific 1980s aesthetic, without ever changing…”

        Are you sure you’re even responding to THIS comment and not some “unfinished business” of yours with me? IDK what this comment had to do with your idea that “Definitions of any word or term are subject to change over time.”

        “From where I sit, you sound a bit narrow-minded too. Go outside and get some Sun.” …well, that’s neat; the equivalent of “I know you are but what am I?!” by someone who took my comments very personally when they were addressed to nobody “personally.”

        I don’t know where you seem to be reading that I’m not open-minded to extreme metal. Furthermore I have plenty such releases bought and paid for that I do enjoy. At least a few wind up on my EotY lists…it’s just not everything, or even the majority of metal I listen to.)

        How about, rather than attempting to confuse me with replies of no focus or relevance (and little coherence,) actually addressing what I REALLY said about most extreme metal today? ….that it’s becoming stagnant and stale? I promise I’ll get back to you when I can because I’m going to be outside today, on my day off, with my family helping my father move.

      • tertius_decimus

        There are many valid points. I wouldn’t argue against your point of view, nor I would agree on something, because I have to think deeper into your post before submitting my personal view on that matter. Just wanna say “Thank you!” for sharing your solid opinion and being honest.

  • I think noise is a very specific palette with a very specific requirement to be achieved, and that makes it very unidimensional. If that so, it’s in the mind of the listener which is the “meaning” behind every piece of sound in that framework.

    So, I stick more with Ed in this discussion. With his opinion about the agression I can relate more , because in the constant, sudden and cathartic explosions of “anti-sounds” I feel expression to the outside, more than the inside. The violence means an action, a movement, a expression; and I can feel that noise check all of that, it’s art to make you feel something: repulsion, catharsis, liberation, pure hatred. But all of that can really be expressed to the outside of your person. Meanwhile, I interpret your merol opinion of being inside: dissapointment is a very personal feel, you can live with it without showing signs of it, it’s a matter of instrocpetion, a inside idea, a personal debate.

    I hope I could understood your disertation, from what I did I really appreciate your considerations and I thank you for making me think once again why I listen what I listen.

  • I’m inclined to agree with this as I always thought of noise as emptiness. There is usually a lot of sound yes, but at least for me it is hard to discern any sort of musical pattern and it results in the music feeling hollow. One could say noise music is closer to the void than anything else.

  • Tyree

    BISMUTH. Not slow enough. Not low enough.

  • I am not disappointed to see that RiotAct666 just dropped into the discussion on the Music that finds you post

  • zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    all 3 at once – full vol



  • Ouch, my brain . . .

    Seriously though, awesome essay/question/thing, Beargod. I would not agree that all noise music is devoid of hate; I know people who listen to noise BECAUSE they find it so hateful, because it gives their shitty little hearts a sweet hatebuzz. However, I do agree that disappointment might be a much stronger wellspring for noise than simple hate. I feel that disappointment breeds more emotional, distinctive and creative music than hate. I have no interest in or use for hatred, but I sure do like me a heaping helping of disappointment–which is one of the primary things which attracts me to metal and dark music in general.

  • The W.

    I feel like the emotion with which I’ve been resonating most in music is adventurousness. Bands that take me on a journey to the past (vod with exploration of the arctic), future (Leprous), some different political landscape (Autokrator), or across dimensions through weird, Lovecraftian angles (Howls of Ebb) are all really tickling my pickle. I guess I’ve just really enjoyed stuff that sounds “weird” or somewhat alien to me.

    There is probably a hint of disappointment in a lot of this music. Every journey has highs and lows. You can either rage at the shortcomings or carry on with the mark of past hurt pushing you forward. I think any mature, rational human will find an end to a journey with a lot of scars and disappointment, so it seems that this deep well of emotion infiltrates so much of the music we love.

  • Kevin Nash & Friends

    In my opinion emotion is needed in music but in moderation. If it’s just how technical you can be you’ll be considered an emotionless robot. If there’s too much you’ll be considered too feminine.

    • The W.

      Nothing wrong with being feminine, mate. Femininity =/= whininess.

    • KN&F, you’ve changed…

    • old_man_doom

      The same applies for the overuse of hatred, anger, and negative emotion as well. It is my opinion, however unpopular it may be around here, that if one’s sole purpose is to express pure negativity, then that is problematic.

    • Is this “too feminine”? If so, I don’t want to be masculine anymore.

  • Joey Jo-Jo Junior Shabadoo

    I think noise is perceived as one of the most extreme forms of music because of its raw and kind of primitive effect on the listener. For example, doom and death metal express sadness, failure etc via long drawn out songs or hate/rage w/e via blasting riffs and chaotic atmospheres, while noise is just pure raw hatred and violence.
    It doesn’t tell you a story of faliure or makes you question reality – it just goes directly inside you and shouts to your soul and that kind of “semplicity” makes it so effective and extreme.

    • “It just goes directly inside you.”

      Excellent point. There isn’t a whole lot of mental filtering going on when confronted with noise. Personally, I’ve never listened to noise and tried to “figure it out.” It goes directly to the PAIN button in my lizard brain and my lizard brain shouts “NO”, or “NO THANK YOU” and I immediately stop listening.

      • tertius_decimus

        This is exactly what I feel about noise. I need that mental food which noise lacks, it just goes directly to the dump room in my mind and makes the shit of my soul smell badly.

  • JW(E)G

    Vaguely relevant quote from an interview with Jan Rechberger that I read today, concerning his thoughts on why there are so many Finnish metal bands per capita compared to anywhere else:

    “…it is dark and cold and depressing all the time and we have nothing else to do but fucking play metal. Its hard to say, before when we started, there were no metal bands being known outside of Finland, mainly just some underground metal bands. I really don’t know the reason besides the depressiveness and darkness but also the level of education in music is really high in Finland we have really good schools for musicians. Lots of professional musicians in Finland with good teaching going on. I guess of late more and more of these bands are making it so others believe they can make it so they keep playing metal and keep coming. I get this question a lot but really didn’t think about it like that before. I guess it’s the same in Sweden as there’s lots of Swedish bands also. So maybe the environment and circumstances of Scandinavia drives people to make metal I guess.”

    This probably explains why Canada also has such a high per capita output of stereotypically-“angry”-subgenre metal (and noise) acts, as well as why they seem to get comparably less aggressive and more mainstream-ish the closer you get to the big border cities (Toronto, Vancouver). Montreal remains an enigma though.

    • It’s this kind of thing that makes me wonder how Canada can come up with some of the most brutal monstrous music. EVERYONE THERE IS SO FRIENDLY I DONT UNDERSTAND

    • I don’t know. Latin América have a lot of problems and people here are starting to suffer from it, I think. We must have a lot of merol and it isn’t happening T_T)


    This post wasn’t angry enough.

  • While I love loud abrasive noise in my music, these noise projects take it to an extreme. They lack essential components that would enable me to enjoy them, namely vocals and drums. There’s got to be some yin and yang. If the seesaw tips too far in one direction or if it’s too much of one thing, the life gets sucked out of it. As far as boundaries are concerned, I don’t think there are any. Although some may feel the extremes have been reached, I think while we hear less boundaries being broken lately it doesn’t mean that they’re not out there to break.

    • Dagon

      I think we’re at a day an age where boundaries will take a really long time to “break”, that is if they do. What seems to happen way more often than in the past is that the lines are getting progressively blurrier between subgenres.

      • Agree with you there, it’s going to happen from out of nowhere and the band/artist that does it will likely be a trend setter that others try to emulate.

      • Honkey Poopypanties

        “If you can imagine it, it’s real” -Pablo Picasso

        You name it, it’s already out there.

    • Edward/Breegrodamus™

      Most of the noise I really enjoy (which I am actually quite picky about) has prominent vocals in there. That’s that shit I do like.

      • Definitely an aquired taste but that’s what makes us individuals. No two people’s musical tastes are identical.

    • Honkey Poopypanties

      It’s definitely an acquired taste. Coil has some excellent noise music, as does Swans (Soundtracks For The Blind era), but it’s definitely something you have to be in the mood for.

  • TrickleDownOvTacoKvltRiff

    50 shades of angry?

  • KJM

    Speaking of pointless noisy anger, one of my favorite cultural train wrecks(AKA Lambgoat) looks more like Stormfront every day.

  • Elizabeth Short

    I agree that there’s most certainly and necessarily a place for over the top scream hateful metal, but I also agree with the sentiment that disappointment, and as follows, longing factors into being more effective in a more moving piece of merol. It’s probably just personal taste, but I find Wake of Omens by the mighty Rwake to be one of the best examples. The lyrics are bleak as hell, the production is grimy (for a Relapse band), the riffs are heavy as fill in the blank, but the harmonies they weave in just slow your breath and cancel any smile you were about to have in the next week. Still listen to it on a regular basis because I apparently hate being happy.

  • Honkey Poopypanties